By the way, the discussion on this forum: (http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/102421.aspx) highlights one of the problems that Klipsch Corp. has in not pushing the Jubilee as a home product because it definitely would do well enough in magazine rankings if they did. It's a strange world that we live in. If you don't believe that critics run around in little groups, think again: I bought a new book last fall entitled: High Performance Loudspeakers, 6th ed., Collums & Darlington, Wiley, 2005. This book commands a fairly hefty cover price.  In it, and I quote, are the author's governing words on horn-loaded loudspeakers:

"4.9 Horn Loading: The specialized subject of horns can only be covered briefly in this book [...a book with over 500 pages...], and interested readers are again referred to the bibliography for more detailed information [52].  While the author is aware of the danger of generalization in this subject, in his view, horn-loaded enclosures are not capable of top class subjective quality and most designs are inferior to typical direct-radiator systems.  The main reason for adopting horn loading, traditionally employed in public address situations, is to attain a high efficiency coupled with an improved control of directivity, vital considerations when large audiences are to be covered.  Studio monitors also exploit high-quality horns to deliver high sound levels up to 120 dB at 1 m."

I keep this book to remind myself of the human failing of xenophobia in almost any discipline. These dangerously mistaken words show an almost inconceivable ignorance by supposed "experts", since Klipsch speakers have been around since the mid-1940s. Remember, this is his 6th edition of the book--he had to be able to sell books from editions 1-5 to get to this point.  Clearly, this author hasn’t heard the speakers that we’ve been talking about here—or maybe the author just doesn’t rate speakers like you or I would. 

Maybe it’s an acquired taste…loudspeaker design...or maybe I'm just ignorant.

Chris 

Cask05:

By the way, the discussion on this forum: (http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/102421.aspx) highlights one of the problems that Klipsch Corp. has in not pushing the Jubilee as a home product because it definitely would do well enough in magazine rankings if they did. It's a strange world that we live in and if you don't believe that critics run around in little groups, think again: I bought a new book last fall entitled: High Performance Loudspeakers, 6th ed., Collums & Darlington, Wiley, 2005. This book commands a fairly hefty cover price.  In it, and I quote, are the author's governing words on horn-loaded loudspeakers:

"4.9 Horn Loading: The specialized subject of horns can only be covered briefly in this book [...a book with over 500 pages...], and interested readers are again referred to the bibliography for more detailed information [52].  While the author is aware of the danger of generalization in this subject, in his view, horn-loaded enclosures are not capable of top class subjective quality and most designs are inferior to typical direct-radiator systems.  The main reason for adopting horn loading, traditionally employed in public address situations, is to attain a high efficiency coupled with an improved control of directivity, vital considerations when large audiences are to be covered.  Studio monitors also exploit high-quality horns to deliver high sound levels up to 120 dB at 1 m."

I keep this book to remind myself of the human failing of xenophobia in almost any discipline. These dangerously mistaken words show an almost inconceivable ignorance, since Klipsch speakers have been around since the mid-1940s, by supposed "experts". Remember, this is his 6th edition of the book--he had to be able to sell books from editions 1-5 to get to this point.  Clearly, this author hasn’t heard the speakers that we’ve been talking about here—or maybe the author just doesn’t rate speakers like you or I would. 

Maybe it’s an acquired taste…loudspeaker design...or maybe I'm just ignorant.

Chris 

 

 Hmm good enough for studio monitors but not the home..... Interesting. When I think high performance loudspeakers horns are the first thing I think about.

I dunno...I can think of lots of instruments and music with fundamentals below 40, 50Hz.

Also, a lot of horns really suck - so I could totally see how that author may have arrived at his conclusions...I wonder if after all these years if the guy is open-minded enough to change his mind after hearing some of the really good horns?

 I am not sure if I should be thanking you are not due to all the slobber runing down my face as I lust so for a pair of the Jub's.... No seriously thanks for the review. But heres a question for you. Did you recently post a sale in the "Garage" for the Crowns, & if so what are you going to replace them with?

Cornman 

How about a pic of your Jubilee's. 

Cornman:

...Did you recently post a sale in the "Garage" for the Crowns, & if so what are you going to replace them with?

Not me - I'm okay with my setup.  Someone is probably going to have to bring over something else to show me firsthand before I'm going to be dissatisfied with my Crown XTi's. 

Chris 

seti:

How about a pic of your Jubilee's. 

I believe that I've posted this before, but...the things on top of each speaker are bass traps.

Chris 

DrWho:

I dunno...I can think of lots of instruments and music with fundamentals below 40, 50Hz.

Also, a lot of horns really suck - so I could totally see how that author may have arrived at his conclusions...I wonder if after all these years if the guy is open-minded enough to change his mind after hearing some of the really good horns?

1) Yes - and your point is?

2) There are probably much more direct radiator speakers that are also awful.  What year did Paul Klipsch start selling the Klipschhorn?

Mike Lindsey:

Like you, I got away from vinyl around 1986, and started collecting high quality CD's (mobile fidelity, xrcd, etc), but I still felt something was missing in the music. Now granted, I don't have Jubs to listen with. But after being away from vinyl for 15 years I started to get back into it. First with a modest Dual CS-5000, and for the last 2 years with my rebuilt Thorens TD-124/SME 3009/Zu DL-103.

Let me tell you right now that those high quality recorded CD's do not compare to the sound of high quality recorded vinyl on a decent vinyl rig. I'm not sure what your vinyl setup is, or what preamp/phono setup you are using, but I would think if my modest vinyl setup (and BBX w/cream)  was hooked to your Crown/Jubs it would sound glorious! Maybe one day I can try it out in my own home.

Mike

You are the second person that I've talked with recently that assures me that vinyl beats digital.  While I'm still skeptical, I'm frankly intrigued.  The only folks that resisted CDs in the 80s were those that had a stake in keeping vinyl (e.g., TT and cartridge mfgers., direct-to-disk recording studios, etc.). The oft-quoted story of the Emerson CD player driving a Jubilee demo at Klipsch has been cited many times here.  I've also heard of folks that have dropped many thousands of dollars on TTs -- good money that could have much better have gone toward buying Jubilees, IMHO.

In my way of thinking, if one CD that beats all the vinyl that I've heard, then the issue is probably not vinyl but is likely more an issue of engineering recordings.  I'm thinking "Loudness War" mentality and increasingly poorer engineering and industry practices that cater to the iPod generation as the root issues.  The same issue may be true of SACD disks, which have been said to be actually inferior to standard CD format in the highest octave (not a good place to be inferior, I might add).  The issue is not so much the format, but the engineers used - many SACD disks are said to be superior to many DVD-A recordings, simply because of "who" did the recording, not "what".  

If you would indulge me here: can you recommend an example vinyl disk that you would recommend that you have heard and that is also widely available for purchase that I might be able to find?

Cask05:

1) Yes - and your point is?

 

I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Cask05:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of percussive audio effects.

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide.

DrWho:

Cask05:

1) Yes - and your point is?

 

I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Cask05:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of percussive audio effects.

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide.

Since you brought it up, what lower frequency did you have in mind (in Hz)?  Could you give me an example recording, by title?

 

Chris 

Cask05:

 

If you would indulge me here: can you recommend an example vinyl disk that you would recommend that you have heard and that is also widely available for purchase that I might be able to find?

Sure... here are just a few:

Original Pressings
Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow (Epic - orange label)
Rickie Lee Jones - Pop Pop (Geffen)
Rickie Lee Jones - Flying Cowboys (Geffen)
The Doors (any that have the original red Electra label)
Richie Cole And... Return To Alto Acres (Palo Alto Records)

Audiophile Pressings
Blood, Sweat & Tears - S/T (Direct Disk Labs)
Bowers & Wilkins presents: Very Audiophile New Recordings (you can get this from Elusivedisc or Acoustic Sounds)
Jack Sheldon & His West Coast Friends - Angel Wings (Atlas Records)
Rimsky-Korsakoff's Scheherazade - Chicago Symphony w/Fritz Reiner (Classic Records from Elusivedisc or Acoustic Sounds)

Mike

Thanks Mike,

I have one of those already-the BS&T album.  I also have a Jeff Beck Blow-by-Blow album, although it is a pressing from the 70s (assuming orange-label is different than not-orange-label.)  I'll try to compare the BS&T with the same material on CD. 

On my system at least, one of the things that I have found is that the soundstage seems a bit more compressed in front-back depth and higher background noise levels with vinyl.  Granted, I presently do not have anywhere close to the world's best TT/arm/cartridge.  Getting a good recording on both CD and vinyl with good source-material depth and stereo imaging has been my issue for A-B comparison.

Chris

"I don't think the following is entirely fair:

Cask05:

Anyone that says that they need a subwoofer with these probably has some tendency toward bass addiction— a common malady in this market—or they are watching war and action movies with lots of percussive audio effects.

 

If a speaker covers the bandwidth required by the source material, then I agree that there is absolutely no reason to extend the bandwidth of the system. However, there is plenty of great source material that warrants itself to dedicated 2-channel listening that requires a bandwidth wider than what the Jubilee will provide. "

 

I agree with these two comments.  I enjoy listening to two channel stereo.  Currently in my attic I have the Homemade La Belles on the inside and Kg-5.5s on the outside.  With this combination there is more than enough bass to vibrate the loveseat from where I listen. 

Then while listening to music with my uncle, who used to play bass guitar in a band, he has a 5.1 set up with an 18-inch Cerwin Vega.  99% of the time he has way too much power headed towards the sub.  Puts you in the mind of the kids running around town vibrating their license plate and body panels off of their cars. 

Have never heard the Jubes yet but am contemplating trying to make it to the pilgramage this year. 

By the way Clapton is playing Deer Creek, May 30th.  

 

 

 

Cask05:

I have one of those already-the BS&T album.  I also have a Jeff Beck Blow-by-Blow album, although it is a pressing from the 70s (assuming orange-label is different than not-orange-label.)  I'll try to compare the BS&T with the same material on CD. 

Is your BS&T the Direct Disk Labs pressing? If not, there is a big difference. And the Blow By Blow needs to be the original Orange Epic label.

Mike