Not really sure why I am sharing this with all of you. I seem to be at a crossroads. Do any of you feel the same way from time to time? 

My current 2-channel set up is a BBX with Cream, Craig from NOS Valves personal Dynaco MKIIIs (I’d guess these are about 85-90% of VRDs) and a Music Hall MMF-5 with a Denon 103. Don’t forget the Khorns with DeanG XOs. It is all in a treated room that sounds darn good to me. Not the end all be all but not garbage by any means. 

I totally love listening to vinyl when I have the chance, but being that my dedicated room is in the basement I often go weeks with out giving things a spin. I do use the same room with my HT set up 2-3 times a week to watch movies. When I do make the time to spin some records I really (really!) enjoy it. I have lots of other system around the house to listen to music, but nothing sounds even close to the “real” system. 

Over a year ago I picked up an Origin Live Silver arm with the intention of building a new top plinth for my MMF-5 just to see how things changed. My long term plans were to pick up a used Basis 2001 or 2100 and start with the Origin arm on it and eventually go with a Vector arm. To this day the Origin arm still sits on the shelf. 

While I am not made of money, it is not really the limiting factor. I suppose if I really wanted to I could swing a new Basis and Vector arm all in one crack, but to be honest I am not really sure if I want to dump all that money into what is essentially something to play music. Part of the fun of the hobby for me is getting new stuff from time to time, the thrill of chasing the next piece of the puzzle and countless hours spent thinking about what is next. But in the end what is good enough and when does it become OCD? 

I am sure a lot of us have great memories of music when it was just blasting out of pair of 6x9 Jenson’s in the back of a mid 70s car with the windows down…hardly high fidelity. When compared to what the average Joe listens to my current set up is WAY more then is necessary. Still I find myself thinking maybe just a little better will be the place to stop. 

Obviously in my current chain the turn table would be the limiting factor. If I were to get serious about a new table I could dump anywhere from 1500-6000 or more on a new/used table and cartridge. But do I really want to? Should I save that money? Invest the money in my future or retirement? Do I live for the moment? Will all that dough really make a noticeable difference in the enjoyment of it all? I, no doubt feel it would be better…but how much is enough? When does the pursuit of musical pleasure turn into consumption just because it has been a while since you bought anything new? 

Thanks for letting me bare my musical soul. Please let me know what you think?

If you already have a good recored cleaner. A newer TT is a fine reseach project. I keep l;ooking at a newer JA Michel or a VPI Scout.

Craig from NOS Valves personal Dynaco MKIIIs (I’d guess these are about 85-90% of VRDs)

I used to think the same about my NOS Valved Scott 208 power amp. VRD is a large step up in bass weight, attack and soundstage for me.

I have not heard the MKIII s in a long time. I may have heard your pair quite a few years ago in one of my visits to Craig since he lives about an hour or so from me.

In my case Scott 208 was 70-80 % compared to VRD St amp.

Your vinyl rig sounds pretty good. Have you evr heard a VRD?

Audio Flynn:

If you already have a good recored cleaner. A newer TT is a fine reseach project...

Craig from NOS Valves personal Dynaco MKIIIs (I’d guess these are about 85-90% of VRDs)

I used to think the same about my NOS Valved Scott 208 power amp. VRD is a large step up in bass weight, attack and soundstage for me...

.... Have you evr heard a VRD?

I do have a VPI record cleaner.

My previous tube amp was a Scott with all the upgrades from Craig. The move to the modded (not just refreshed) MK IIIs were a huge leap in my mind.

Yes I have heard VRDs several times at GaryMD's house. Craig might jump in with the gory details, but it is my understanding that these were his daily driver amps that he played with over and over as he developed the VRD.

No doubt real VRDs would be a step up...but in my mind it should be a much smaller step then going from a 500 dollar turn table to a $5000 table. But who knows? As my wife says my current set up sounds better then anything she or most other have ever heard. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns, guess each person just needs to find where their particular point is. If I were going to drop the money at this point it would not be on different amps...at least not for the time being. Perhaps pCats and VRDs in the future just to have everything at my fingertips!

Rich, since you've heard Gary's setup quite often, you no doubt have a better idea than most would of what a Basis table and Vector would do for you compared with VRDs.  I agree with you on the likely difference you'd hear.  There are a couple of 2001s on Audiogon that don't look totally outrageous pricewise (I'm out of date on used Basis prices).  One has a clamp, and one should have although it it's not mentioned, and I'm assuming you would take the $500 drop over the Benz cart.

You need to be sure that if you get a used Basis, it will take (1) your OL tonearm and (2) a Vector when/if you get one.  I don't know how much a new properly drilled plinth costs, but Basis can be pricey.

In my mind, what you do depends on how much your vinyl listening means to you, and it sounds like it means quite a bit.

There's my modest-value $0.02 as requested.

Larry

Thanks for the input Larry. It is in fact that Basis on a-gon with the benz cart that has me interested in tables again. It is my understanding (email from AJ at Basis) that the RB-250/RB-300 and Vector use the same mount...thus the same plinth. My OL is just a modded RB-300, so it would stand to reason that I am good.

In addition to my OL arm I already have a Basis clamp...also sitting around for over a year. Long story, but the short version is that a guy in Baltimore had a Basis 1400 with both RB-300 and the OL Silver arm. I almost bought the whole package of both arms, table, clamp...etc. He was moving to England and the cost of a different motor for his 1400 was not cost effective. In the end he sold me the OL arm and clamp, because I knew some day I would most likely have a basis table. I did not get the 1400, because I truly want (don't need) a 2001 or 2100. BTW, the 1400 guy said the OL arm was a big improvement over the RB-300 FWTW, but you also have to figure what is he going to say after he forked out the $$$ for it and was now trying to sell it. It looks like brand new, lots of good press on the OL - silver.

So I could get the agon Basis sans cart and in turn sell the 300 arm and the extra clamp. I would not think I would have all that much in the 2001 when it is all done. The seller of the 2001 is the original owner, purchased it in 2001 and it looks pretty good from the pix he sent. Oh, guess I could sell my MMF-5 to offset the price even more. Man, now I am really talking myself into this. Better put on the brakes.

So what you all think I can net from a MMF-5, Basis clamp, and RB-300 arm 500-600 bucks???

Rich,

Everyone must decide for themselves what is a worthwhile investment.  For me, my Basis was one of the best purchases I've ever made in audio if I calculate enjoyment for the money.  Even though I spent quite a bit as you know, I'm guessing I easily have close to 1,000 hours on that table.  I've never made a single adjustment and it sounds as good as it did the day I brought it home (or so it seems).

I don't know what to tell you except IMO, the improvement you will hear will far exceed anything else you have discussed swapping out.  I suppose that isn't the point though.  Also, although you're a busy man and don't have a lot of time to enjoy your system now, in 10 years that might change.  You could wait until that day or you could buy now knowing some day you'll get your money's worth (and enjoy it when you can in the meantime).  It's not like you're talking $100K.  It's just a couple/three grand to get you there after selling your current rig and you could always make a lower offer on that A'gon table and see what happens.

Good luck and let me know if I can help at all.

- Gary

Edit:  Offer this guy $3k and see what happens - http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1210916559

We all should stop.  You passed the point where you should stop a long time ago (and so did most of us here).  If you really enjoy spinning vinyl right now there is no need to go further. 

Are you at this point:  you don't get too excited about something new because you are currently satisfied but its fun to get new equipmnet. 

I was all ready to stop not too long ago and then someone wanted to buy my speakers to finish out his home theater.  Now I have speakers that I though I would never buy on the way to me.  Its madness. 

This thread reads like

             Question: "I'm thinking of giving up crack.  Should I give up crack?  I think that I am happy and don't need any more crack."

             Answer:  "Have you ever tried this kind of crack?  You'll love it!!"

I am just as guilty. 

Anyway, if you are happy, start saving your discretionary money for a while and buy CD's and LP's to satisfy your spending needs (it is fun to buy stuff). 

At the end of it you may buy some really expensive audio or maybe something else.  We bought dirt bikes last year - tons of fun, I always wanted one when I was a kid and the parent said no. 

TWKs, I think you might be onto something with the crack analogy, but it is more like:

I got the junky itch, time to buy something. The planning and buying part is all good fun...then it wanes and it is time for the next fix. I honestly don't think given more money then sense it will ever end. When I was dirt poor (I mean serious lack of funds) I worked a couple of jobs and went to college part time but still found a way to have a pretty darn nice stereo set up - Carver separates, 800 dollar laser disc player, brand new Forte IIs, (after selling the KG4s) endless CDs, etc. I guess eating mac & cheese was fine as long as I had the equipment I wanted.

I currently have a pile of LPs I have not listened to yet....some over a year old. That is crazy when I step back and think about it...but I am in no rush to sell them.

I am quite sure a new table will sound better...but trying to find the end point in my mind. Seriously conflicted on my end.

Gary, I already had a back and forth with that guy about selling me the table without the vector. He will and wants 2300. That table is a lot less used. I appreciate the other thoughts.

rplace:

Not really sure why I am sharing this with all of you. I seem to be at a crossroads. Do any of you feel the same way from time to time? 

My current 2-channel set up is a BBX with Cream, Craig from NOS Valves personal Dynaco MKIIIs (I’d guess these are about 85-90% of VRDs) and a Music Hall MMF-5 with a Denon 103. Don’t forget the Khorns with DeanG XOs. It is all in a treated room that sounds darn good to me. Not the end all be all but not garbage by any means. 

I totally love listening to vinyl when I have the chance, but being that my dedicated room is in the basement I often go weeks with out giving things a spin. I do use the same room with my HT set up 2-3 times a week to watch movies. When I do make the time to spin some records I really (really!) enjoy it. I have lots of other system around the house to listen to music, but nothing sounds even close to the “real” system...

While I am not made of money, it is not really the limiting factor. I suppose if I really wanted to I could swing a new Basis and Vector arm all in one crack, but to be honest I am not really sure if I want to dump all that money into what is essentially something to play music. Part of the fun of the hobby for me is getting new stuff from time to time, the thrill of chasing the next piece of the puzzle and countless hours spent thinking about what is next. But in the end what is good enough and when does it become OCD? 

I am sure a lot of us have great memories of music when it was just blasting out of pair of 6x9 Jenson’s in the back of a mid 70s car with the windows down…hardly high fidelity. When compared to what the average Joe listens to my current set up is WAY more then is necessary. Still I find myself thinking maybe just a little better will be the place to stop...

Thanks for letting me bare my musical soul. Please let me know what you think?

Consider it seriously before setting your mind into some sort of endless loop on other pieces of gear that probably won't make much of a difference; think about listening to a pair of new Klipsch speakers--the last ones that PWK worked on--before making up your mind that it's not possible.

My two-channel setup is also my HT, and you've not lived until you've heard DVDs on these speakers--it's better than theaters, trust me.

...my $0.02.

Chris 

rplace:

am quite sure a new table will sound better...but trying to find the end point in my mind.

don't forget the Transfig cart

LarryC:

rplace:

am quite sure a new table will sound better...but trying to find the end point in my mind.

I don't know if I should mention this ... don't forget the Transfig cart

In due time my friend. I know you or Garry will want to upgrade while there is still life in yours and I will be waiting in the wings with cash in hand.

I went the opposite direction recently with my vinyl set up.  I sold my Scheu Premier MKII table and Moerch tonearm, it sounded very nice but I was not completely satisfied considering the money I had invested.  After hearing about the raves from people getting into idler drive tables such as the Garrard, Thorens and Rek O Kuts, I decided to give one a try.  I purchased an L-34 Rek O Kut in very good condition, cleaned and lubed it, built a 6 layer birch ply plinth and put it all together with an old denon tonearm.  It sounded so good I purchased another Rek O Kut, this time a B-12GH which uses a Pabst motor which runs very quiet.  I sold the L-34 and will build a new plinth for the B-12GH, add a good arm and you will have a vinyl set up that will compete with much more expensive vinyl rigs.  For a couple hundred dollars you can put one these tables together and be very happy.  BTW the Denon 103 likes a heavier arm than the Rega or Origin Live, although reports say the combo sounds very good.  Good Luck.

Phill

sit tight. enjoy.

Rich,

If you want to hear a significant upgrade for just a few bucks, then invest in the DL-103R. On my Thorens TD-124 it was very noticeable, and all for the better. These can be had on eBay (direct from Japan) for $260 shipped to your door. Since you are already using the DL-103 you need to buy nothing else.

Just a thought, but thought I'd mention it. I love mine, and even improved on it by sending it to Zu Audio for another $200 to do their thing. Worth every penny!

BTW, I'm in town now during the week, and the occasional weekend. We will need to hookup one of these days.

Mike

rplace:

LarryC:

rplace:

am quite sure a new table will sound better...but trying to find the end point in my mind.

I don't know if I should mention this ... don't forget the Transfig cart

In due time my friend. I know you or Garry will want to upgrade while there is still life in yours and I will be waiting in the wings with cash in hand.

When there is something you have the itch to upgrade it does not matter that you have LPs you have not lisened to. You are pretty darn well intough with what you want to do.

Scuba diving got in the way of audio in 2008, otherwise I could easily justify a new arm and cart for my TT.

We are pretty sane compared to this nut on A gon who never set up this Gyro TT and has nearly 300 transactions.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1210131582