When I listen to records before say 1975 or so drum kits sound well, like real drum kits. There is no mistake that a stick is hitting a skin covered thing and each of the drums sound unique and very interesting individually and as a set. Also, drums were recorded in a fairly open space and seeemed to have a lot of air around them. Then suddenly drums began to sound not liuke drums at all. The sound became totally dull, similar no matter what drum was being hit, and the drum kit lost all it's air and space. The main sound being the "thunk" which sounds like a 2x4 hitting a sofa cushion. Also, the got so loud the now seem to lead the band on pretty much all music. As though the drum is a lead instrument. Now, I know it can't ALL be drum machines, can it? Or, is something radically different about modern kits versus vintage?

Between half of them being sampled or otherwise electronic, and the other half being so heavily compressed you might as well be playing just loose drumheads without any shells or tension - that pretty much sums it up. There are multiple threads on the over-use of compression in the recording industry these days - and yes - it makes all instruments sound flat, lifeless, and narrow. Bah.  

 Ahhh yes, the compression demon. Ok, that would account for some of the dullness for sure. How about the total loudness and domination of drums in most pop music? That seems totally weird to me.

Throw on side 2 of Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow (Thelonius and Freeway Jam) if you want to hear what real drums should sound like in your living room. If you have the Epic Orange label it will just blow you away (no pun intended)...

Mike

I can tell you that the change isn't due to the drums themselves. Drums nowadays (warning: generalization) have sharper bearing edges, yielding a sound with more attack, as compared to the old days. Most drums are made out of the same old hardwoods, maple being the most popular, but also birch, mahogany, beech, and some exotics. In the 70s, muffled heads became popular (Evans Hydraulic, Remo Pinstripe), but those can still yield a decent drum sound if tuned properly. All I can say is, if a drummer uses a muffled head with a low tuning, then the result is mashed potatoes. I think the problem is mostly on the production end of things. That said, there are some great drum sounds being produced today.

On jazz recordings, the drums sound much better than on rock and pop. Usually, there is a very nice distinction of all the different drums and pieces of percussion. On rock and pop, there is a dominant, and loud as heck "thud-thud-thud" with nearly zero variation in the tone. i.e. boring.

mdeneen:

When I listen to records before say 1975 or so drum kits sound well, like real drum kits. There is no mistake that a stick is hitting a skin covered thing and each of the drums sound unique and very interesting individually and as a set. Also, drums were recorded in a fairly open space and seeemed to have a lot of air around them. Then suddenly drums began to sound not liuke drums at all. The sound became totally dull, similar no matter what drum was being hit, and the drum kit lost all it's air and space. The main sound being the "thunk" which sounds like a 2x4 hitting a sofa cushion. Also, the got so loud the now seem to lead the band on pretty much all music. As though the drum is a lead instrument. Now, I know it can't ALL be drum machines, can it? Or, is something radically different about modern kits versus vintage?

Does your experience (i.e., dull sound) also apply to something like "Best of Chesky Jazz, Vol 2", tracks 14ff?

When recordings went digital, it seems that most recording engineers went to close-miking all trap sets since the dynamic range of the new medium (digital) had about 30+ dB more theoretical headroom than the older analog systems.  The Chesky recording mentioned above highlights the problem - you don't want to get too close with the drum mikes, but in modern practice I see close miking of all instruments starting about the time of dbx/Dolby processors and digital recorders.  I also suspect that mixing engineers are now compressing the drum tracks, but I can't prove it.   Electronic drums have always sounded dead to me.

BTW, I find the same problem with piano recordings.  I'm guessing that recording engineers uniformly went to close mikes. I have a couple of LPs of Debussy's Children's Corner using a Steinway (Deutsche Grammaphon recordings) that sound like I have my hands over my ears.

Additionally, to compound the effect, Yamaha and Kawai (i.e., Pacific Rim) pianos, which began to really show up in the 70s, seem to my ears to be very "muted" while European and Steinway (American) big-name pianos sound a lot more percussive or brighter. This shows up in recordings, too.  This is, apparently, personal taste on the part of pianists and piano makers (it's also a lot cheaper to produce a muted piano).

Chris 

 Chris---

I don't have that Chesky recording. Your comments are probably right as to close mic'ing and compressing, but there is something else to it (I think). I can hear great sounding drum kits on all kinds of very ordinary old recordings. Even those remastered from 78s, ala old swing era recordings. Drum kits had really snappy life and a huge variety of tones. And, however they were mic'ed and recorded, you could tell they were "in the back" spatially. Modern pop recordings all sound like the drum kit is way in front of everyone, and some insanse monkey is just sitting there beating the hell out of one dead sounding drum with some sort of wooden axe handle or something - a complete lack of finesse. So, there is a style issue, a musical issue and a recording issue, I guess. All I know is that this new drum sound has me 100% turned off any music that contains it. 

Most recently, someone recommended a new Mary Carpenter release. I played a few samples on Amazon and there it was - that innane drum sound. (ex: The Calling - "It Must Have Happened.". Arghhhh). That sound seems to appear nearly identically on thousands of current and recent pop records. Like some sort of generic drum track working it's way into every record. 

Mike Lindsey:

Throw on side 2 of Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow (Thelonius and Freeway Jam) if you want to hear what real drums should sound like in your living room. If you have the Epic Orange label it will just blow you away (no pun intended)...

Mike

I used to listen to that album all the time!

mdeneen:

Like some sort of generic drum track working it's way into every record. 

 

It's very insidious.  I hate it.  You think it's bad for you?  Try being a drummer and hearing it.

oldtimer:

mdeneen:

Like some sort of generic drum track working it's way into every record. 

If you think the "new drum sound" is messing up recordings try a live show. It seems as though the kick drum is the lead instrument in any band nowadays. This stems from the desire to isolate sounds as much as possible... every drumhead has its own mic and each mic "hears" only one drum. The sounds this technique produces is nothing like hearing a drum kit acoustically. Often, the guy at the console intentionally distorts the balance of the drum kit for effects. Compressors are used, among other reasons, to even out the sound caused by an inconsistent drummer. And I guess this is done by popular demand. People want to hear slammin' bass cause "treble don't get the party started". Oh, well.

Don

Honk if you love Horns

 Two words:

Tama Imperialstar

:) 

 So....I guess I am not the only one hearing this dreadful dumming sound, huh? 

 

Don--

Yeah, kick drum as a "lead instrument" - - that's what I am talking about! 

Not at all the only one who is hearing it.  There is a reason I listen mostly to "older" recordings... they just sound better. They are also actually in stereo too :) They have taken so much of the "music" out that mostly now it is just "sound".  

 "Just sound" - man, ain't that the truth! A big massive wall of lousy sound, that's what I hear on so much of the new stuff.