I think generally passive networks can only cut frequencies.

Roy's eq curves clearly call for a shelving and high bump in the active network for proper HF section with the K69 driver.

No wonder you weren't happy with the top end.

 

Michael

greg928gts:

stereohermit:

 what kind ofpassive HF eqingare you doingm if any. Love to see a schematic of your XO.

The design is from Roy Delgado, Klipsch engineer.  I've attached it to this post. 

What is not shown in this schematic, is how much the signal is being manipulated. 

Greg

 

 

See the bits in the network where there is a resisitor, cap, and choke in line ACROSS the +/- for each driver? That is a 'parametric' eq filter cut of a certain bandwidth of a certain depth of a certain 'Q' or width of frequencies, all determined by the choice of parts for that filter circuit. 

 

If I'm reading the schematic correctly, the LF has a 24 db/octave low pass cutoff with a single PEQ filter. The HF section looks like 24 db/octave slope with the resistor padding down the circuit and two PEQ filter sets. EDIT, I stand corrected on my original read of of the network slopes

 

I'm sure one of you bright lads can correct me on this.

 

Michael

 I'd say 24 db LF, 24db HF.

 Thanks Hermit, above post edited. Reading the network sideways, I missed entire sections. 

greg928gts:

...Tom - my living room is 21 x 16 x 9' with beams 3' on center across the ceiling...Generally I prefer the high-mids down a bit, and the high highs up a bit.  I also prefer the low frequencies tipped up a bit.  I own and have used both the dual crown amps and the EV DX38 with the Jubilees.  I was genuinely disappointed with the sound from the crowns and pleasantly surprised by how good the EV is.  I think the EV would be a great tool for designing passive crossovers.   

Bruce - Dean told me it was an intermediate build on the passive networks.  I agree that some tuning and/or higher quality parts would be fun to try.  The choice of the 299A was for the Khorns for Karl to hear..

I know that you have a strong bias against active crossovers, but I'd try Roy's EQ settings once again on actives in your now bigger room, biamping. (Actually, I find that the Jubes like an even larger room than the dimensions you related above.)  I'd push the center of highest PEQ frequency up to about 13.5 KHz, increase the "Q", and boost the gain from Roy's setting about 1-2 dB (to taste). In addition, I would try a significantly different lf EQ than that published by Roy.   It removes most of the boominess, and adds some more gain on the bottom end to add back a little for "expected room gain".  I found these changes added a great deal for the older recordings that I own, etc.

I've got a different lf set of PEQs if you are game to try it again. Just let me know (email or PM) if you are interested, and I'll forward the curve to you.  I'm guessing that the passive you are using doesn't handle those big 180 Hz and 97 Hz peaks, or the boost you'll enjoy on the bottom end (if you can believe it...).

Chris

"I think generally passive networks can only cut frequencies. Roy's eq curves clearly call for a shelving and high bump in the active network for proper HF section with the K69 driver."

So adjust the series resistor (shown in Dean's diagram) for best mid-range balance, and then add the 2µF+40µH bypass (which removes the attenuation above 8Khz).

 

Got a new Keb Mo CD today and put it on at low volume and realized that I now like the sound of these speakers at low volume, whereas before, with the active setup, I was always wanting to turn them up higher and higher.  Which they gladly did!  But it's nice to have these speakers sounding good at low volumes, even when I'm sitting and listening intently (not just background).  I credit the passive networks for bringing refinement to these beasts. 

In spite of my criticisms about the Jubilees, these are the best speakers I've ever heard. 

I think my criticisms are mostly aimed at Klipsch for not working hard to make them even better, and for not producing them as their flagship speaker, and for not working to make them Wife-Friendly, and for not advancing the vision of their founder, etc...  There's so much more that needs to be done with large fully horn-loaded loudspeakers, and as far as I can tell, the only people doing it are DIY'ers, and that's even pretty rare.  There is no other company in the world more qualified or capable of advancing the art than Klipsch, and in my view they are virtually ignoring it. 

Rant over.  For now. 

Merry Christmas!

Greg

Is,nt that what i,ve been bitching about for the last two years?????  No its not there best speaker,, Could be,, but not in its present form.

Maron Horonzak:

Is,nt that what i,ve been bitching about for the last two years?????  No its not there best speaker,, Could be,, but not in its present form.

In your opinion what would it take for this to be klipsch's best speakers. Just don't mention silver wire.

Veneer and a dinky horn.

 They take up too much shelf space for Best Buy.

colterphoto1:

 They take up too much shelf space for Best Buy.

Yes but since when have you seen best of anything at best buy? Tannoy Westminster? JBL Everest?

Back room at the Doller General Store.

seti:

Maron Horonzak:

Is,nt that what i,ve been bitching about for the last two years?????  No its not there best speaker,, Could be,, but not in its present form.

In your opinion what would it take for this to be klipsch's best speakers. Just don't mention silver wire.

I would be curious to hear the answer also.

PrestonTom:

seti:

Maron Horonzak:

Is,nt that what i,ve been bitching about for the last two years?????  No its not there best speaker,, Could be,, but not in its present form.

In your opinion what would it take for this to be klipsch's best speakers. Just don't mention silver wire.

I would be curious to hear the answer also.

Maron, I too would like to better understand your perspective.  I have owned most every speaker Klipsch has made, except the Palladium.  I bought the Jubilees and find them to be the best speaker that Klipsch makes, cabinet finish not withstanding.  I listened to Pals in Indy in the demo room and, while they are beautiful and quite good in their own right, they do not best the Jubilee - imho.

What is their best speaker?