I have lascala's w/AA crites xovers. Using Karman kardon AVR 520 (85x2) Do I need more? Can't afford tube. Lookinh at Crown XLS 402 (300x2) Any suggestions?

 See http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

and http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

 

I also have La Scalas with Bob's AA's. I drive them with amps rated at less than 4 watts, have yet to put more than 1 watt into them. The La Scalas are very easy to drive and don't need a lot of power to get loud levels. Whatever you look at for amplification, you should be looking for something that presents its best quality at the lowest levels of output (in the first watt, especially). Many high power amps are designed to present their best quality only at the highest levels of output, which you will may not ever be able to approach with the La Scalas (because those amps are designed to drive very inefficient speaker designs), the La Scalas would be just too loud.

I used a Phase Linear 400 for many years to power a pair of Heresy's and It worked well and sounded good. I recently, about a year ago, subbed in a Crown XLS 402 and the difference in sound quality was incredible. I liked it so much that I bought a Crown XLS 602 for the mains and am using the 402 crown split, one half for my subwoofer, and another for my front center channel. I recently had added a pair of Klipsch Professional KP-3002's to the mains and taken the first pair of Heresys out, and got a TC Electronics delay and reverb to hook up with the Phase 400 for back channels with the heresys. I have another pair of pro heresys in parallel with the KP 3002's as part of the front main channels.

Do not be afraid of the Crown gear. It is nearly bullet proof and will do everything you want it to do. 

Fellow forum member Bill Hendrix uses Crowns for power. I have had a stereo Macintosh tube power amp with a mono tube amp for center channel pushing a three-heresy system and in my memory they were nothing special. I did not miss them when they were gone, and did not have them long enough to have to replace a tube. The Mac tube gear did not impress me as much as the Crown power amps have, in terms of value-vs-functionality and freedom form service issues.

Get the crown with no reservations if you want to.  

Tubes are essential in guitar amps.May be gilding the lilly for home audio??

 Chuck....ps congrats on your new LaScalas 

I use a pair of the Crown 402s in a church PA system.

They sound very good in this setting. Still for LaScalas at home, they are way overpowered.

All you need is one good clean watt. I think it would be good to major on a lower powered but very high quality home amplifier.

I've been listening to a VirtueTwo tripath amp on Heresy's and haven't even begun to push the amp to full power. On LaScalas, this amp would be killer, IMO. It also has a sub out, so easy sub use is available, if desired.

 

http://store.virtueaudio.com/

Here is my dream match for my LaScalas

 http://mcintoshlabs.com/specialedition/default.asp

maxsdad:

I have lascala's w/AA crites xovers. Using Karman kardon AVR 520 (85x2) Do I need more? Can't afford tube. Lookinh at Crown XLS 402 (300x2) Any suggestions?

You don't need more, you need less. Like about 1/85th of that.

Different strokes for different folks, YMMV and all, but I just can't imagine how those high power SS amps are a good match for LSs. To me, the speakers were designed for efficiency to mate with low power amplifiers. You can look at the spec sheet of your HK Receiver to see all types of distortion and other specs at 85 watts. What are those specs at .5 watts - 5 watts? That's what you need to know. You got 80+ watts all bottled up in that amp with nowhere to go. Make them happy and hook up to an 86db speaker and let them free!

Look for a good used Antique Sound Labs integrated amp. All the power you need . I use a set of LaScalas outside with 30 watts and they are awesome. just bought a set of La Scalas used for $500.00 and an Amp off E Bay for $400.00 for a friend and he could not believe the sound quality

sebrof:

Different strokes for different folks, YMMV and all, but I just can't imagine how those high power SS amps are a good match for LSs. To me, the speakers were designed for efficiency to mate with low power amplifiers.

A clean-sounding amp is a clean-sounding amp, whatever power it can put out.  I went from using a 130Wpc (in stereo) AV receiver to power my La Scalas to a premium 500Wpc separate power amp, and the improvement in sound clarity and dynamics was obvious to anyone listening.  I later got a second one and used it to power a pair of Heresy IIs, with similar results.

Even though only a few watts, or maybe even less, are being used most of the time, having all that headroom (power to spare) gives the music more realistic punch, since live music has a greater dynamic range than most systems can deliver.

The high sensitivity of La Scalas means you can get good sound with 4 watts or more, way more if that's what you have available.  As long as the signal is clear and noise-free, the speakers will sound great.  Low power can sound very good, but high power can give more realistic musical transients, especially if you listen to rock or full orchestra music at high volume.  For folk or small acoustic groups, especially in a small room, the low-powered amp may be all you need.

Islander:

sebrof:

Different strokes for different folks, YMMV and all, but I just can't imagine how those high power SS amps are a good match for LSs. To me, the speakers were designed for efficiency to mate with low power amplifiers.

A clean-sounding amp is a clean-sounding amp, whatever power it can put out.  I went from using a 130Wpc (in stereo) AV receiver to power my La Scalas to a premium 500Wpc separate power amp, and the improvement in sound clarity and dynamics was obvious to anyone listening.  I later got a second one and used it to power a pair of Heresy IIs, with similar results.

OK, I'm with you.

But - Could it be that the reason why your LSs sounded better with the 500 watter isn't because of the extra 490 ( watts but because you got better quality power from your brandy new premium amplifier than you did with the AV receiver. And wouldn't you expect that if you paid the same money for an ultra premium 50 watt amplifier (or 20 watts, or whatever) with even better quality power you'd get even better sound? Or an amp designed to give its best output at very low power?

My experience it limited, but I've had 75 watt SS and 100 watt tube push pull, and neither sounded as good as a 2 watt single ended EL84 or a 6 watt single ended 807. I don't have a big room or play R&R or orchestra music at "live" levels, but I do listen to loud rock (90+db at my chair).

 

sebrof:

But - Could it be that the reason why your LSs sounded better with the 500 watter isn't because of the extra 490 ( watts but because you got better quality power from your brandy new premium amplifier than you did with the AV receiver. And wouldn't you expect that if you paid the same money for an ultra premium 50 watt amplifier (or 20 watts, or whatever) with even better quality power you'd get even better sound? Or an amp designed to give its best output at very low power?

You could well be right.  My experience is limited, too.  I've never heard a high-end tube amp or a super-expensive amp (as in over $10K), but the trumpet-blast-or-drumbeat-in-your-chest effect might be hard to duplicate with low power.  Of course, for many listeners that's not important, because realistic vocals are at the top of their priority list, or some other facet of music that doesn't call for much power.

Islander:

sebrof:

 

You could well be right.  My experience is limited, too.  I've never heard a high-end tube amp or a super-expensive amp (as in over $10K), but the trumpet-blast-or-drumbeat-in-your-chest effect might be hard to duplicate with low power.  Of course, for many listeners that's not important, because realistic vocals are at the top of their priority list, or some other facet of music that doesn't call for much power.

Roger that.

One thing I've learned spending time in this hobby is that everyone's tastes are different.

 One thing I've learned spending time in this hobby is that everyone's tastes are different.

Yes, I agree. LOL

Sometimes it is painful to listen to what someone else loves through PWK's speakers....  Music choice is funny indeed! 

IndyKlipschFan:

 One thing I've learned spending time in this hobby is that everyone's tastes are different.

Yes, I agree. LOL

Sometimes it is painful to listen to what someone else loves through PWK's speakers....  Music choice is funny indeed! 

 

 

Thank god eh. It would suck if only had one style amp and speakers. 

 

I read somewhere that PWK favored big band music. I wonder if Klipsch is ever going to restore and post the recording he made in Hope and Little Rock.

 

When I take music to audition speakers I try to keep my most obnoxious music at the house. LOL

For starters, please update your Profile, so we can provide the best answers for you:

 

• Room size?
• Room shape?
• Prefer extra bass punch or flat accuracy?
• Subwoofer?
• Stereo or multi-channel?
• What kind of music? Movies too?
• How loud?
• Other planned additions or upgrades?
• Tweaking audiophile – handy, willing to DIY?
• Prefer new or used?
• What else have you tried?

 

A clean-sounding amp is NOT a clean-sounding amplifier. Manufacturers quote Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) for their amplifiers at the amplifiers’ highest output. But THD is not the same for all types of amplifiers. And, since LaScala speakers are the same as other big ole Klipsch horns: you actually need a few, generally three to six, not more than 20 watts. Yet these watts must have very low distortion. Because of their exceptionally low distortion, big ole horns are extremely revealing of anomalies upstream. If a component has lots of distortion at low power, the speakers can sound harsh.

 

I have heard the wonderful $6K Pass X250 amplifiers on my B-2 Cornwalls Is, and my flea-power $550 2A3 tube Bottlehead Paramours can sound just as sweet, when they are not clipping. Powerful solid-state amplifiers do have headroom so loud passages at high volume have considerable slam. And not everybody appreciates the soft clipping of tubes. But to me, all but the very best solid-state amplifiers wear out my ears.

 

This low distortion capability is readily available:

• So, look for heavy, vintage solid-state receivers, like Harmon Kardon twin transformer models 430-930, which go for as little as $5
• Check out chip amplifiers, like Sonic Impact and Trend Audio, which are about $100
• Seriously consider low-cost, refurbished tube amplifiers from fellow forum poster Craig, at NOSvalves.com. Refurbishing one will take time, yet it will cost less about a grand. The result however, will be as almost as good as most mega-buck integrated amplifiers, solid-state or tube.
• I know from experience that Cayin, Antique Sound Labs and Bottlehead are good

 

Where big ole horns really need the power is the bass. Low bass notes require enormous amounts of energy. LaScalas do not have deep bass. In fact, they are not even rated below 53 Hz! But because they are so amazingly efficient, they do have incredibly high 121 dB SPL output! Therefore, you need a very powerful sub-woofer. The combination of tubes on big ole horns with a very powerful subwoofer is magical.