so if i dont feel the power I desire from the Marantz with the RF-83's and the RC-64 running off of the built in amp, I see one of my options as upgrading to to the XPA-3 or 5 and having that push my 83's and center channel... 

what im desiring is thump in my chest, if the marantz can do that combined with the rw12d, i might stick with what i have... otherwise ill have to keep seeking until i find a resolution.

I was really thinking that here in 2009 that there would be a really quite like tight preamp (really hi-tec and savy with all the bells and wistles offered) on the market in case I ever did want more out of a pre-amp than the Marantz 8002 could offer.  Maybe there are, i just dont know of any.

Theres what thePlummer suggested, the sunfire and theres this:

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3922.asp

and this:

http://us.marantz.com/Products/2317.asp

But im not sure of what better or more capability I would have over using the Marantz 8002 as my preamp like William suggested...  To be honest, I really want\ in a preamp something that I can use with my computer wirlessly.  Not that its a necessary option for everyone, but in the new age, I like to go big...  at first I thought buying a 2000 dollar receiver was going big, but as I play with it and get into it, like I said earlier, the upgrade bug has me wanting more out of it.  But first things first, get the RF-83's in July, then see how they sound.  I think that is first thing I need to do like William said.

oh and far as money goes, i dont look at price to make decisions most of the time unless its pointless to spend more when i dont have to.  but if i see something i reaaaaallly like, the price wont deter me from buying it unless im being taken advantage of

Seems to me you already have your mind made up, which is fine since it is YOUR money. You havent even gotten the 83's and already are expecting you need something bigger and badder all around. If you are wanting thump or pound in your chest, I would look at something alot more capable than a RW12D. I have this sub and feel it is more than sufficient for my listening patterns. You keep mentioning key phrases like thump, ear bleeding levels, I think you need to concentrate on one area. I mean you are all over the place, bi-wire this, bi-amp that. At some point you will actually have to listen to your gear for longer than 2 hours and get a nice reference, otherwise you will never know what all these upgrades-or money- did for you. Good luck and hope you find what your looking for.    

shortstack31489:

i am sure that his center is using the third channel....and the sub is self powered and has an amp built in to it

What shortstack31489 said.  My Onkyo sends a signal(with rca connections) from the left, right , center preouts to the B&K amp to power my front soundstage(left-center-right).  The Onkyo uses it's surround channel built in amps to power the surrounds.  There is a sub pre-out rca connection on the Onkyo to send a signal to my subwoofer's amp section.  Your Marantz will have the same thing but probably in a different place.

Bill

MistaChy:

I was really thinking that here in 2009 that there would be a really quite like tight preamp (really hi-tec and savy with all the bells and wistles offered) on the market in case I ever did want more out of a pre-amp than the Marantz 8002 could offer.  Maybe there are, i just dont know of any.

I am a B&K fan.  Here is another option if your Marantz alone(option 1), then your Marantz and an outboard amp(option 2), just doesn't do it.  Remember, try option 1 first then option 2.

http://www.bkcomp.com/products/preamp-receivers/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=22&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=11&cHash=4a85173845

with this

http://www.bkcomp.com/products/amplifiers/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=14&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=10&cHash=f7aaf13d9a

All the bell's and whistles and a lot of clean power.

Bill

thanks  guys, i got exactly what i needed to know. i really appreciate the great advice... im off to do damage now

One last thing...

kelA:

 You keep mentioning key phrases like thump, ear bleeding levels, I think you need to concentrate on one area. I mean you are all over the place, bi-wire this, bi-amp that. At some point you will actually have to listen to your gear for longer than 2 hours and get a nice reference, otherwise you will never know what all these upgrades-or money- did for you. Good luck and hope you find what your looking for.    

Not to be rude by any means but do you know exactly what your doing? You seem to have some awesome gear but do you have everything set up to max performance. Tweaking a receiver can make a world of difference and for the "thump" you are wanting i would upgrade the rw-12d to something a lot larger for your tastes

shortstack31489:

Not to be rude by any means but do you know exactly what your doing? You seem to have some awesome gear but do you have everything set up to max performance. Tweaking a receiver can make a world of difference and for the "thump" you are wanting i would upgrade the rw-12d to something a lot larger for your tastes

 the way i have it set up now, my 82's get loud, but they dont really have the punch i desire.  i need to be able to feed them more juice and push them harder to get the power and umph! in your face!! that i need... thats why i either wanted to get a seperate amp to push the 83's (250 watts going in them) or try to run 4 fronts as i was wanting to do earlier, so i resorted back to what people were recommending which was seperates in the first place.  so thats why i decided to maybe try a different set up than i have now to just test the waters and see what kind of sound i get.  money isnt an issue, im just dabbling around to find what i desire out of all of this.

 i got a good idea of what I want to do now, most of the posts here have been very helpful.  if i dont get what i need from the amp in the marantz using the 83's, im almost certain that the emotiva xpa-2 pushing 250 into each rf-83 wont dissappoint me.  as someone once said, the rf-82's and the rf-83's arnt in the same league.

the sound coming from my speakers need to make me feel the way this baby looks

reading threads from other sites, i came across this

IMHO, Heavy and Punchy bass are kind of an oxymoron. Generally heavy bass tend to sound boomy or muddy whilst the tightest punchiest type speakers actually sound rather bass light compared to the usual fare - that is until you crank it in which case the punchy bass sounds much more powerful and in your stomach than the heavy or plodding room vibrating "heavy" bass.

I realize this all depends on how you define heavy...

i need to feel it in me

reading threads from other sites, i came across this

IMHO, Heavy and Punchy bass are kind of an oxymoron. Generally heavy bass tend to sound boomy or muddy whilst the tightest punchiest type speakers actually sound rather bass light compared to the usual fare - that is until you crank it in which case the punchy bass sounds much more powerful and in your stomach than the heavy or plodding room vibrating "heavy" bass.

I realize this all depends on how you define heavy...

i need to feel it in me

asdflaskdfaskjdh "double post"

I have many hours(and $$$$$$) invested in this very issue. Heres my 2 cents worth. I prefer the BK-carver- Sunfire-Crown option of used outboards off e-bay  Audiogon- or our garage. The bang for the buck is favorable. The Emotiva or Outlaw stuff is also a great choice. IMHO I dont hear a ton of difference between brands. Any decent clean power amp will work fine. Mixing brands is not a problem-IMHO.  I had a loaner set of FR 83s for a few days before diving into the Heritage stuff. The RF 83s are fantastic speakers for HT applications. But IMHO they do sound much better with a load of power 200-250-300 watts. Tried them both ways.  My personal favorite is the raw power of the carver/Sunfire line. You can pick these up cheap if you are patient. I think using the marantz as a pre out/ control unit is the right way to go. I have a Sony ES but would prefer the Marantz if I had it to do over. It is my opinion that receiver power is inadequate and grossly misrepresented by the manufacturers. 5 speakers- buy  5 outboards.  I think you will end up with a killer setup - given your coments.

winchester21:

I have many hours(and $$$$$$) invested in this very issue. Heres my 2 cents worth. I prefer the BK-carver- Sunfire-Crown option of used outboards off e-bay  Audiogon- or our garage. The bang for the buck is favorable. The Emotiva or Outlaw stuff is also a great choice. IMHO I dont hear a ton of difference between brands. Any decent clean power amp will work fine. Mixing brands is not a problem-IMHO.  I had a loaner set of FR 83s for a few days before diving into the Heritage stuff. The RF 83s are fantastic speakers for HT applications. But IMHO they do sound much better with a load of power 200-250-300 watts. Tried them both ways.  My personal favorite is the raw power of the carver/Sunfire line. You can pick these up cheap if you are patient. I think using the marantz as a pre out/ control unit is the right way to go. I have a Sony ES but would prefer the Marantz if I had it to do over. It is my opinion that receiver power is inadequate and grossly misrepresented by the manufacturers. 5 speakers- buy  5 outboards.  I think you will end up with a killer setup - given your coments.

killer is exactly what im looking for

MistaChy:

money isnt an issue, im just dabbling around to find what i desire out of all of this.

maybe try these then im sure they would vibrate your t-shirt off! and deliver the punch you require?