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Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

Last post 08-06-2009 3:40 PM by Garyrc. 6 replies.
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  • 07-29-2009 5:40 PM

    • Garyrc
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-22-2003
    • Corvallis, OR-former: Oakland CA
    • Posts 366

    Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    Two related questions:
    1)  What is the horizontal wall seal on the newer Klipschorns, and where does it go exactly?  I use a vertical seal on the tailboard, but I'm in the dark about a horizontal one.
    2) On the Klipschcorner.com Klipschorn Timeline they say that the AK-5 network was "... introduced to compensate for the improvement in low frequency response resulting from the addition of a horizontal wall seal..."  I opted not to convert my AK4s to AK5s (by clipping a wire in the network) because I was told the AK5 cut back the tweeter "to let you hear a little more midrange," and  I didn't want to lose any treble, and I didn't want the midrange any higher (relative to the treble).  But from what K.Corner seems to be saying, it is conceivable that the AK5 actually turns up the tweeter a bit, to compensate for "Improved" low frequency response (perhaps a further lessening of the dips that bad seals encourage).   A slight increase in the tweeter level might be attractive.  Does anyone know the details of how the change from AK4 to AK5 affected he response?
    Thanks
    Gary R Camp
    Main room: 2- 1982 Klipschorns with K-401 fiberglass mid horn upgrade (1987), and AK-4 Klipschorn stock upgrade (2006), Belle Klipsch (2005) center channel, 2 NAD C- 2 72 ss 150 wpc stereo power amps (not bad), NAD T163 home theater type pre-amp (Achilles heel: no way to avoid transmitting slight hum to Khorns), Heresy II surround speakers driven by 1/2 NAD C-272 and a Yamaha 135 wt amp, NAD C-542 CD player, Magnavox DVD player, TV monitor. Klipsch RSW-15 subwoofer, for movies only.
  • 07-29-2009 7:38 PM In reply to

    • BEC
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2002
    • Arkansas
    • Posts 5,033

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    Actually the change in AK-4 to AK-5 is just in the woofer circuit.

     

    Audiophile n. A person who claims to hear the inaudible.

    Annoying Audiophile - A person who claims that others may be trained to hear the inaudible unless they are deaf.

    With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy:

    If it tests good and sounds bad, you might be an audiophile.

    If it tests bad and sounds good, you might be an audiophile.
  • 07-29-2009 9:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    I understood that the top of the bass bin should be sealed against the wall, as well as the tailboard.

    I don't have a pic, but, at least in the "B" style, the top OF THE BASS BIN is actually another 5-sided Home Plate, just like the home plate on top of the top hat.  So, I put pipe insulation along the sides (which are horizontal, of course) of that bass bin's home plate, to seal the top of it against the wall.  That way, each side of the last stage of the bass horn is sealed on all 4 sides (top, wall, floor, and bass bin side wall) and the bass wave now flows unvexed to the mouth.

    My understanding of the AK-5 is the same as Bob's.  However, the 400-Hz crossover of the bass horn is well up in the musical midrange.  I believe the change has to do with changing how much is trapped out of a peak in the upper bass (at maybe around 200 Hz?), which can sound like a change in the treble.  I changed mine temporarily, but didn't like it as much and changed back to AK-4's.

    1962 Mahogany Klipschorns/AK-4s, OTL monoblocs, Basis 'table & arm and Transfiguration cart. Lotsa LPs, CDs, music scores and books.
  • 08-03-2009 6:26 PM In reply to

    • Garyrc
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-22-2003
    • Corvallis, OR-former: Oakland CA
    • Posts 366

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

     

    LarryC,
    By pipe insulation, I assume you mean the curved (nearly cylindrical) insulation meant to go around pipes??   I'm considering trying this, after removing the "rubber runner" (sheet rubber meant to go under rugs) that I put on just the tail piece only (at Klipsch's recommendation) in 1982.  I would be replacing the rubber runner only to make the thickness of the new, pipe insulation gasket the same on the tail piece as the pipe insulation that would then be placed on the horizontally oriented "home plate" top of the bass bin.
    I'm not sure how you put it on.  Did you slice the pipe insulation along its length to make it less than 360 degrees, more like 90 degrees, then glue it on,  so it would stay in place until it was squeezed against the wall?  
    "I changed mine temporarily, but didn't like it as much and changed back to AK-4's."   
    What was it you liked better about the sound of the AK4s over the 5s?
    Thanks!
    Gary R Camp
    Main room: 2- 1982 Klipschorns with K-401 fiberglass mid horn upgrade (1987), and AK-4 Klipschorn stock upgrade (2006), Belle Klipsch (2005) center channel, 2 NAD C- 2 72 ss 150 wpc stereo power amps (not bad), NAD T163 home theater type pre-amp (Achilles heel: no way to avoid transmitting slight hum to Khorns), Heresy II surround speakers driven by 1/2 NAD C-272 and a Yamaha 135 wt amp, NAD C-542 CD player, Magnavox DVD player, TV monitor. Klipsch RSW-15 subwoofer, for movies only.
  • 08-03-2009 10:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    Yes, the 3-ft long black or gray cylinders.  It's already pre-slit longitudinally, so you just slide your finger along the slit to free it up.  It springs right back to the original shape.

    It's sized for either 3/8" or 1/2" pipe, and I used the 1/2" (ID) size.  It's fairly flexible, retains its original shape, and has a lot of friction on slick surfaces like lacquer finishes, so you slide it on and it mostly stays put.  It slides right onto the edges of the tailboard and bass bin top plate.  I didn't need adhesive, and didn't want to anyway, but, yes, the walls help hold it in place.

    I used a utility knife to cut angles and notches so it would stay in place without gapping.  For example, I think I had to cut notches for where the braces attach to the tailboard, and angles where called for at the ends.  I think I cut separate lengths for where the tailboard steps in for baseboards. I also cut little plugs for where wire goes through holes in the bass bin top.

    The AK-5 change made them sound a little hollow, like there was a small dip in an important mid-bass/midrange area.  Maybe I was used to the AK-4 config, but I was glad when I switched back.  It's an easy change to make and reverse as I recall, but don't break a wire at the end of a cap.

    BTW, I've always put that insulation on hot water pipes wherever I've lived, because it keeps "hot" water hot or warm quite a bit longer, a nice feeling, believe me.

    Hope this helps.

    Larry

    1962 Mahogany Klipschorns/AK-4s, OTL monoblocs, Basis 'table & arm and Transfiguration cart. Lotsa LPs, CDs, music scores and books.
  • 08-05-2009 9:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    LarryC:
    BTW, I've always put that insulation on hot water pipes wherever I've lived, because it keeps "hot" water hot or warm quite a bit longer, a nice feeling, believe me.

    and on cold water pipes to keep moisture in the air from condensing on them. 

    I've used a thick rubber gasket for sealing the tailboards.  This gasket is used on the bottom edges of overhead garage doors.  But I have not tried it on the upper horizontal section of the bass horn. 

    Greg

     


    4-way MCM 1900 system
    Modified Khorns with V-Trac horns
    Klipsch Jubilees - passive and active
    Super Cornwalls - need crossover tweaking
    Jamborees with various upper horn experiments

    www.dcchomes.com/Gregsaudio.html
  • 08-06-2009 3:40 PM In reply to

    • Garyrc
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-22-2003
    • Corvallis, OR-former: Oakland CA
    • Posts 366

    Re: Horizontal wall seal & AK4/AK5

    Thanks LarryC, BEC, and greg!

    Gary R Camp
    Main room: 2- 1982 Klipschorns with K-401 fiberglass mid horn upgrade (1987), and AK-4 Klipschorn stock upgrade (2006), Belle Klipsch (2005) center channel, 2 NAD C- 2 72 ss 150 wpc stereo power amps (not bad), NAD T163 home theater type pre-amp (Achilles heel: no way to avoid transmitting slight hum to Khorns), Heresy II surround speakers driven by 1/2 NAD C-272 and a Yamaha 135 wt amp, NAD C-542 CD player, Magnavox DVD player, TV monitor. Klipsch RSW-15 subwoofer, for movies only.
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