I'm busy now trying to finish my Jub project but here is a couple of shots of were I'm at on them.

Few things to still complete but I'm getting there. Also the camera flash makes the brown of the K402 section appear lighter than it is to the naked eye.

mike tn

Looking good!  Keep us up to date.

greg928gts:

My memory tells me there was quite a bit of boost involved when I hand-programmed my DX38

Here's the paramaters we're using for the K69.  I do not know if this is defined as quite a bit or a little.  At least we have a reference point to make that conversation.  Most of what I see are decreases?

I only see increases at:

2.6K at 3db's

14.8K at 6 db's (this is the HISLV and I have ZERO idea what that means)  Maybe someone can explain it more?  (Mike??)

I don't know if we 'count' the HISLV, if we do then there are two items of boost.  If we do not count it, then we only have one item of HF boost.  I'm wondering if you had the correct values if you thought there was quite a bit of boosting?

Hope this plot comes out viewable.

Greg here is the race plot of the electrical signal output of the EV DX38 using Roy's orginal program for the Jub/K402/K69A.

You will notice a maximum reduction of approx. (-11db) at approx. 1.5khz but the overall reduction in drive runs from around 500Hz to 4kHz. Only close to 15kHz is there an effective boost slope peaking around +5db by approx. 18kHz which is about the limit of the K69A.

mike tn

oops...  missed the 2 db boost at 5.6K

Coytee:

I don't know if we 'count' the HISLV, if we do then there are two items of boost.  If we do not count it, then we only have one item of HF boost.  I'm wondering if you had the correct values if you thought there was quite a bit of boosting?

 

To just look at the individual filter settings can be misleading and hard to comprehend the true electrical drive going to the amplifiers. It's best to look at the total effect of all filters(like the race plot I posted) to get a real understanding of what is being accomplished.

mike tn

mikebse2a3:

I'm busy now trying to finish my Jub project but here is a couple of shots of were I'm at on them.

Nice.  They are looking much more refined. 

I've thought about making mine pretty.  Maybe someday.  The first thing I would do it take the *** flange off the K402.  I'm surprised nobody has done that yet. 

Greg

Here's the basic (no Q for clarity) Crown Xti settings.  The picture is just the high frequency EQ settings. 

Low frequency 

108Hz  -6db

180Hz  -6db

300Hz  -6db

370Hz  +2db

High frequency -  from the crossover point of 500Hz to 20Khz

Low shelf filter at 2.5Khz -8db

Hi shelf filter at 10Khz +5db  That's a 13db difference between the bottom half of the horn and the top.  Even just looking at the 5db boost from 10K and up is not insignificant or subtle. 

1Khz  -1db

1.48Khz  -5db

2.3Khz  -2db

3.5Khz  -4db

5.32Khz  +3.5db

12Khz  -7db

I see a 15db difference in the EQ curve in the top horn.  So maybe using the word "boost" is not correct, but "severe manipulation" of the frequencies is, in my mind, accurate.  From an audiophile's perspective, it's far from what I desire in my living room system.

Now, in my shop, the MCM system gets similar manipulation, as do most PA systems and commercial installations everywhere.  The tools used to manipulate the signal to tailor commercial systems to movie theaters, nightclubs, outdoor venues, etc... are very useful and necessary.  I just don't want them in my audiophile system at home. 

The two-way Jubilee, with the associated electronics needed to make it sound right, to me, is both impressive and disappointing.  I can audition them and really knock people's socks off.  Uncontrollable smiling.  But living with them in my audiophile, living room system, is too difficult.  I can't get around the extra stuff.  With the upgrades I now have in my Khorns, I find myself drawn back to that sound, with the very simple signal chain - CD- Amp - Speaker.  I can listen to my Khorns at lower volumes (95db - 100db) all night.  With the Jubilees, I find myself always wanting to turn them up louder and louder, which tells me I'm not satisfied with the overall quality of the sound, and to get something out of my listening sessions, I end up going for the impact that they can certainly deliver. 

Greg

 My mistake, thought these were home brew. Earlier post corrected. 

I guess I don't know the engineer very well either, I won't pretend to speak for him. 

M

greg928gts:

Here's the basic (no Q for clarity) Crown Xti settings.  I see a 15db difference in the EQ curve in the top horn.  So maybe using the word "boost" is not correct, but "severe manipulation" of the frequencies is, in my mind, accurate.  From an audiophile's perspective, it's far from what I desire in my living room system...The tools used to manipulate the signal to tailor commercial systems to movie theaters, nightclubs, outdoor venues, etc... are very useful and necessary.  I just don't want them in my audiophile system at home. 

The two-way Jubilee, with the associated electronics needed to make it sound right, to me, is both impressive and disappointing.  I can audition them and really knock people's socks off.  Uncontrollable smiling.  But living with them in my audiophile, living room system, is too difficult.  I can't get around the extra stuff.  With the upgrades I now have in my Khorns, I find myself drawn back to that sound, with the very simple signal chain - CD- Amp - Speaker.  I can listen to my Khorns at lower volumes (95db - 100db) all night.  With the Jubilees, I find myself always wanting to turn them up louder and louder, which tells me I'm not satisfied with the overall quality of the sound, and to get something out of my listening sessions, I end up going for the impact that they can certainly deliver. 

Greg

Those are interesting measures of merit, Greg. Personally, I would tend to use my ears in this type of situation. I guess I have to say that I've never heard a better set of speakers (low volume or high), but that's just my opinion.  BTW, 100 dB (C) (slow response) is actually pretty loud around my stomping grounds.

I am waiting to upgrade to TAD TD-4002s soon (...the lead time on these drivers is looong...) since they have better properties in terms of freedom from ringing but I'm still smiling with the K-69As, at low volumes or high. I found that my initial choice of XTi's to drive the Jubs was not the best choice, but that was very easily remedied (now using Dx38 and D-75As).  The sound stage and detail are pretty spectacular, IMHO, better than anything else I've heard to date in a home environ.

I'm wondering if the TD-4002s will make that much difference, but that is the disease that we all tend to have here, isn't it?  I.e., "what if?". 

Chris

Cask05:

I'm wondering if the TD-4002s will make that much difference, but that is the disease that we all tend to have here, isn't it?  I.e., "what if?". 

I'm sure they will make a difference, they are a much higher quality driver.  LOL, yes it is a disease. 

BTW, I tried the Xti's at first, but soon switched over to the DX38, and it was much better sounding with the various amps I've got around here.  Then I tried passive networks and really liked the familiarity and how the speakers just seemed to blend much better. 

One thing I'd like to try is biamping, using the same amplifier for the low and high, maybe class T amps. 

Greg

greg928gts:

BTW, I tried the Xti's at first, but soon switched over to the DX38, and it was much better sounding with the various amps I've got around here.  Then I tried passive networks and really liked the familiarity and how the speakers just seemed to blend much better. 

One thing I'd like to try is biamping, using the same amplifier for the low and high, maybe class T amps. 

Greg

Chris

mikebse2a3:

To just look at the individual filter settings can be misleading and hard to comprehend the true electrical drive going to the amplifiers. It's best to look at the total effect of all filters(like the race plot I posted) to get a real understanding of what is being accomplished

Well...  you know how much of this electronic voo-doo I understand!

I thought ....well....never mind what I thought, I'm evidently showcasing how much I don't know and how much I need to keep my fingers still!