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Heresy II project

Last post 12-01-2007 9:41 AM by rcarlton. 116 replies.
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  • 02-16-2007 5:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Not to hijack the thread, but to answer Michael Colter, yes that is what happened. The moisture content in a new home and an older home differ, as well as the moisture content in the wood as stored at the store. Consious contractors ( people that actually care ) let the flooring acclimatize in  the actual room, monitoring the percentage of moisture content with a meter. This may take a month or more.

    Most contractors are the type to just bang it down and not care, others are professional and actually care about doing the jobs right, this is where the shade-tree and professionals differ. It is really hard to find people that take pride in a job done well. IMO professionals in all fields are few and far between.

    Sorry to hear that colter, just sucks that that happened to you, no one's fault, just that you and your brother did not know any better. There is a real difference there, just like a "contractor" knowing better and doing it wrong in the interest of getting paid and moving on to the next job.

    Music is an emotional expression.


  • 02-18-2007 10:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Tried again on Saturday...warmer outside, in the work room it was 70. Filled in all the cracks, sanded. Waited 72 hours so glue was completely cured. Glued another sheet of veneer down...started cracking in minutes! Put a hold on the project until warmer weather. Will make sure the humidity is over 50% and I might put a light coat of oil on immediately after sticking the veneer down.

    Edit: Still making the mistake of using the water based contact cement...when will I learn?


    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
    Filed under:
  • 02-18-2007 10:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Didn't want to end my Saturday on a downer...so I finished sanding the walnut Heresy. One coat of Tung oil so far!

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-24-2007 3:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Heresy II after 6 coats of Tung oil. Hand rubbed between each coat. The oiled walnut Cornwall's in the background are a little redder in color. These are finished in Tung oil also, but it took only 5 coats.

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
    Filed under:
  • 02-24-2007 3:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Close up showing the grain.

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-25-2007 11:13 AM In reply to

    • colterphoto1
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-06-2002
    • the photo that started 'Welcome to the Madness'
    • Posts 20,153

    Re: Heresy II project

    That walnut is beautiful, perhaps it could act as a center while the other gets a workout being a guinea pig for veneer?

    Is that veneer just too darned thin? Seems like an awful problem you're having and I've never heard of that type of difficulty before. Makes me want to think twice before embarking on my summer veneer project (I'd meant to get it done last year, but since I don't have a barn due to legal/zoning issues with this house- arrrggghghhAngry)

    MH- I think we had the hardwood in the house for a few days and had the A/C on. We carefully adjusted the nail gun to the right pressure and hit it about every 8", with no end joints near each other. Perhaps the subfloor is too bouncy? There is some sagging because they used 2x10 floor joists. Think I'm going to get into the crawl spaces and put a beam down the middle to stiffen the structure. Perhaps that will help. 

    June 3, 2008 - 'we will no longer be needing your services'.


    For Technical Questions please call Klipsch Tech Support at 1-800-554-7724. They'd love to hear from you guys!

  • 02-25-2007 11:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    colterphoto1:

    That walnut is beautiful, perhaps it could act as a center while the other gets a workout being a guinea pig for veneer?

    Is that veneer just too darned thin? Seems like an awful problem you're having and I've never heard of that type of difficulty before. Makes me want to think twice before embarking on my summer veneer project (I'd meant to get it done last year, but since I don't have a barn due to legal/zoning issues with this house- arrrggghghhAngry)

    Michael,

    The combination of using the nonflammable contact cement and the change in humidity apparently caused the cracks.The wood simply dried out and shrunk some. In order to shrink something had to give, hence the cracks. I have two more Heresy I's all stripped and ready to go. Today I intend to paint black lacquer on the motor boards and rear panels. Should contrast well with the Bubinga. 

    Yesterday (in a sandstorm no less) I did a lot of sanding and filling of the spoiled veneer. I'm debating on using the filler as a sealer over the whole veneer before adding another sheet. I will change to the flammable contact cement. I can't imagine sanding and scraping off two layers of veneer.

    I've got two Heresy I's all stripped and ready for veneer. 

    As far as using the Walnut Heresy as a center...certainly thought about it. Would be interesting to see if it can outdo my unmodded KLF-C7.  Would have to mount it on the wall above the TV if it wins in the shoot out.

    Edit: Turns out the Heresy did do a better job as a center channel. I no longer have the KLF-C7. 

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
    Filed under:
  • 02-25-2007 1:46 PM In reply to

    • colterphoto1
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-06-2002
    • the photo that started 'Welcome to the Madness'
    • Posts 20,153

    Re: Heresy II project

    If you seal it right after laying it down, how will the glue cure? Or if the wood is that thin and possibly porous, could the oil seep through and ruin the adhesion?
    June 3, 2008 - 'we will no longer be needing your services'.


    For Technical Questions please call Klipsch Tech Support at 1-800-554-7724. They'd love to hear from you guys!

  • 02-25-2007 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    colterphoto1:
    If you seal it right after laying it down, how will the glue cure? Or if the wood is that thin and possibly porous, could the oil seep through and ruin the adhesion?

    Good question. I went to the DAP site and found this information: "Trimming or finishing operations may be performed immediately after bonding."  Sounds like I will be OK.

    Edit: Bought a book on veneering which echoed colterphoto1's concerns. They recommended waiting a few days until the glue is set. 

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-25-2007 3:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

     Here is what an edge view looks like with the cracks sealed. 


    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-25-2007 3:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    A little closer view.

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-25-2007 9:25 PM In reply to

    • RFP
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-08-2006
    • Hurst, Texas
    • Posts 362

    Re: Heresy II project

    rcarlton:

    DisasterCrying! Yesterday the weather changed in Dallas for the cooler...no big deal...speaker is in the spare bedroom. Woke up this morning and found the veneer covered with little cracks running with the grain. Oh, noSuper Angry! suspect two things could have happened:

    1. Temperature in the spare bedroom dropped below 65 degrees...I checked the temperature...62 degrees.

    2. Having the furnace on all night decreased the humidity and caused the cracks. 

    Leaning toward the low temperature as the culpritHmm. No big deal...only loss is some of my time and 2 18"X38" pieces of veneer. Have 10 more left. Will fill in all the cracks with putty, sand with 150 sandpaper and reapply veneer this weekend. Should go much faster since I'll know what I'm doingSmile

    Ron... I am really sorry about your disaster... that's certainly no way to begin your day; espcially a day that you thought would have been spent continuing your excellent project progress.  Anyway, from my own veneering experience, may I offer two observations - neither of which may have any bearing on what is going on with your mysterious cracks:  (1) Highly figured veneer is, by its very nature, difficult to work with and often gives more 'surprises' than you want.  Burls, and other really nifty figures, are routinely 'filled' before finishing by even the best woodworkers to hide cracks, splits, etc.  (2) I have never had any good results using water-based contact cement with veneer.  Never.  The stinkey, explosive stuff is - in my own experience - far superior (and it introduces NO water into your veneer). 

    But despite your modest set back(s), your refinishing will be a success...

    Have a good week!

    Rob

  • 02-25-2007 10:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    I've thought about using the flammable contact cement. I figure to sacrifice one more sheet of veneer. More changes will be made and the glue is first on the list.
    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-28-2007 9:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    Sacrificed a small piece of veneer. Used the flammable glue (cheaper too). No cracks...2 hours.

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
  • 02-28-2007 9:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Heresy II project

    My new work area...formal dining room. In the background are two Heresy I's waiting for some Bubinga veneer. Hope the flammable contact cement worksTime

    Ron Carlton
    Dallas, Texas
    Downstairs: oiled oak Klipschorn, oiled walnut Heresy II (center), SVS PB12-Plus/2 piano black, LaScala (rear), Bubinga Heresy I (rear surrounds), Outlaw 990, McIntosh MA6100, (2) McIntosh MC250, McIntosh MC2100, OPPO DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A2, Cambridge Audio Azur 640C

    Upstairs: McIntosh C2200, McIntosh MC275MKIV, oiled walnut Cornwall I, Denon DVD-2200, Technics SL-1200 M3D, Audio Technica AT150MLX, Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro

    Avatar: Mr. Waddles rocking out to the K-horn's.
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