Having analysed systems and technology professionally for many years I can add something to the list of disparities; in the US and most Western countries the use of software is licensed. Big companies use a tremendous amount of extremely expensive software to not only design and engineer products, but also to control manufacturing, accounting, payroll, product distribution logistics, plant equipment asset management, plant maintenance, and many other functions. This is a huge cost and part of the overall cost of doing business.

China generally has not accepted the "intellectual property" concept of paying license and support fees for software; estimates report that most of it is pirated. This saves them costs and is one of the global relationship issues they will need to resolve in the future to be a world class country - which they ardently desire. When and if they resolve to address this, along with the many labor practices, workplace conditions, liability adoption, and other issues mentioned above, their costs will begin to come up to par with those of the Western manufacturers.

Some will think, "Great, let's hope they get there soon!"

Unless the US corrects it's educational system and get us out of 30th place,  China may get there all too soon.

 I don't know what you mean by "world class country." If you mean becoming a Western style democracy, I don't agree. What they seek is domination, just like its competitors. They are executing a brilliant strategy thus far. Far, far superior to the one executed by the clumsy, and industrially incompetant Russians during the Cold War. What China understands that the Russians never did is "money" as a strategic weapon.

What's the incentive for China to obey intellectual property treaties? They already have favored nation trade status. They already are growing at 2-1/2 times our growth rate. They already hold much of the world's financial stability hostage. They are already a nuclear power. And, they have already "appropriated" (ah hem) most of the world's key technologies----FOR FREE! 

ThomasB:

If manufacturers consider "made in China" as a product attribute, then proudly provide consumers with a convenient web source for that information.

Made is inaccurate if we consider all the factors which go into producing a product.  If we can mandate a huge warning label on a pack of cigarettes, we should be able to get an accurate statement or "call out" on products.

I suggest "This product includes the labor of an oppressed people living under communist rule who are paid pennies on the dollar and whose rulers make millions to ensure they retain dominion over your fellow man." 

 WARNING: This product may cause loss of livlihood, reduction in standard of living, and reduce your quality of life. Consume at your own risk.

 Ya think...my cat licked one of my RF-52's...he's not been well since

1/   I've always made a strong effort to buy made in USA although my budget is not unlimited.   I do prefer the quality that made in USA means.

2/   Companies that outsource to China and elsewhere do it only because it means more profits, not more quality. 

3/   When it comes to CEO compensation the shareholders, not the BOD, should have the final vote/say in the matter as they are the ultimate owners.

4/    I am currently looking at the RF-83s and the associated Home Theater package primarily because they are made in America, not because they are Klipsch.   If this speaker grouping is not made in USA,   please let me know.   I have no desire to sacrifice either my lifestyle nor my families so that that we can send US Dollars to subsidize China.

Thank you

ThomasB:

...  I am currently looking at the RF-83s and the associated Home Theater package primarily because they are made in America, not because they are Klipsch.   If this speaker grouping is not made in USA,   please let me know.   I have no desire to sacrifice either my lifestyle nor my families so that that we can send US Dollars to subsidize China.

Good News! If you purchase the RF-83 and RC-64 you won't be putting your lifestyle or conscience in jeopardy. Welcome to the forum. :-)

pauln:

Having analysed systems and technology professionally for many years I can add something to the list of disparities; in the US and most Western countries the use of software is licensed. Big companies use a tremendous amount of extremely expensive software to not only design and engineer products, but also to control manufacturing, accounting, payroll, product distribution logistics, plant equipment asset management, plant maintenance, and many other functions. This is a huge cost and part of the overall cost of doing business.

China generally has not accepted the "intellectual property" concept of paying license and support fees for software; estimates report that most of it is pirated. This saves them costs and is one of the global relationship issues they will need to resolve in the future to be a world class country - which they ardently desire. When and if they resolve to address this, along with the many labor practices, workplace conditions, liability adoption, and other issues mentioned above, their costs will begin to come up to par with those of the Western manufacturers.

Some will think, "Great, let's hope they get there soon!"

Unless the US corrects it's educational system and get us out of 30th place,  China may get there all too soon.

pauln:

Having analysed systems and technology professionally for many years I can add something to the list of disparities; in the US and most Western countries the use of software is licensed. Big companies use a tremendous amount of extremely expensive software to not only design and engineer products, but also to control manufacturing, accounting, payroll, product distribution logistics, plant equipment asset management, plant maintenance, and many other functions. This is a huge cost and part of the overall cost of doing business.

China generally has not accepted the "intellectual property" concept of paying license and support fees for software; estimates report that most of it is pirated. This saves them costs and is one of the global relationship issues they will need to resolve in the future to be a world class country - which they ardently desire. When and if they resolve to address this, along with the many labor practices, workplace conditions, liability adoption, and other issues mentioned above, their costs will begin to come up to par with those of the Western manufacturers.

Some will think, "Great, let's hope they get there soon!"

Unless the US corrects it's educational system and get us out of 30th place,  China may get there all too soon.

Sad but true, and with the rise of open source, the development game is now just one of numbers, how many developers can you get per project, that with US companies reluctant to honor GPL agreements and we have a real problem.  Bangalore, China and Eastern Europe are banging at our door, these areas have great developers.  IMI took the avionics contract for the F-22 and what do have outside of a growing gap between our dumb and smart people.

True, China is a nation of thieves in that they don't recognize internalional patent law, so the thing would be to keep state of the art stuff out of their hands.  China has been the sleeping giant, but when the labor and production costs (fuel, etc) grow to burdensome, they will farm out to the Vietnamese, really the southern tip of China. 

ThomasB:

...When it comes to CEO compensation the shareholders, not the BOD, should have the final vote/say in the matter as they are the ultimate owners.

On a side note, when the Board of Directors is made up of majority (i.e., large) stockholders and their allies, the majority of people owning shares usually doesn't compare to the voting influence that the board and CEO make up. The game on Wall Street is too pick the winning team and pull out before something you don't know happens.

Sad but true, and with the rise of open source, the development game is now just one of numbers, how many developers can you get per project, that with US companies reluctant to honor GPL agreements and we have a real problem.  Bangalore, China and Eastern Europe are banging at our door, these areas have great developers.  IMI took the avionics contract for the F-22 and what do have outside of a growing gap between our dumb and smart people.

True, China is a nation of thieves in that they don't recognize internalional patent law, so the thing would be to keep state of the art stuff out of their hands.  China has been the sleeping giant, but when the labor and production costs (fuel, etc) grow to burdensome, they will farm out to the Vietnamese, really the southern tip of China. 

An ounce of common sense should tell us that the political leaders of either of our political parties are not working for the greater good of the USA.   Thirty+ years of increasing trade deficits and increased outsourcing states the obvious.   They are working for multi-national corporate interests.   Furthermore how could any patriotic DOD official justify giving the contract for our F-22 avionics to the Israelis?   Every cent of taxpayer money spent on our military should be plowed back into the USA economy to US industries with US workers.   this should be done based upon economic common sense and for security purposes.    I see our our country being dumbed down by the media and by stupid policies (such as giving F-22 avionics to IMI) that leave us with less to spend on the education of our USA youth. 

The Chinese and others are going to eat our lunch within a generation because they encourage hard work and education instead of having their youth fritter away their spare time on foolishness such as gaming and reality TV.   The media in this country works hard at increasing its own profits while undercutting the country.

ThomasB:

The Chinese and others are going to eat our lunch within a generation because they encourage hard work and education instead of having their youth fritter away their spare time on foolishness such as gaming and reality TV.   The media in this country works hard at increasing its own profits while undercutting the country.

They may encourage it, but the youth of China are, in actuality, not much different than the youth of the U.S. I saw this first hand when I visited my gf, who teaches English in three different Chinese colleges (she is a Filipina). Many of her students are lazy, don't study, don't do their homework. A majority of students? That would be hard to tell, but they have so many it doesn't matter.

It would be interesting to know how many are the same in India, which seems to crank out mathmaticians and programmers all day long.