Yes, well of course you make the point even stronger here that "everything and anything sounds fantastic." It's the Julian Hirsch gets Jubs message. I suspect you could put a $30 Radio Shack receiver in there and it would also "sound fantastic." And I totally agree that you are lucky to be able to save all that money for more beer and pizza. (Now you know why millions of people the world over buy Bose speakers and simply love the death out of them! They're audiopunks of a different color, perhaps?)

What struck me funny wasn't that you removed your Peach, and it "sounded fantastic" even with an obviously compromised and rolled-off box, no surprise there at all. What was funny (in a good way) was your disdain and bewilderment at why anyone would chain themselves to a chair and actually SIT AND LISTEN to all the nuances, like air and all that other dumb stuff! 

DeanG:

You don't hear a difference because the EV unit is making everything sound the same.:)

More likely it's because Richard's style of listening isn't from the sweet spot were most of these differences would be perceived.

Dean you made comments to me about the differences you heard after hearing the EV active while using different sources and amps were involved so I don't understand how you can make a comment now about it masking such changes.

mike tn

I was kidding!

I'm sure what you're saying has a lot to do with it. Holding a slice of pizza and glass of beer up in front of your face will also compound the problem. Honestly, I think source material plays a big role too. I don't know about Richard, but I don't listen to Jazz, Classical, or female vocalists -- I do Rock-n-Roll and DVD movies and concerts. I truly believe my source material minimizes the differences between gear (to a point).

mdeneen:

What was funny (in a good way) was your disdain and bewilderment at why anyone would chain themselves to a chair and actually SIT AND LISTEN to all the nuances, like air and all that other dumb stuff!

Bewilderment yes

Disdain?  I don't know that I ever said nor even suggested that?  (if what ever I said DID infer that, then I apologize for the faux pas but you DO have me on the bewildered part!)

If a cymbol that was recorded in a booth/stage miles away from me, was recorded using XYZ equipment, compressed by the engineers, tweeked by the engineers, has a twang instead of a twing, how the heck am I going to know how the cymbol in the ROOM sounded when it was struck and recorded? To sit there and 'fret' (for lack of better word) over that just can't be done by me.

Odds are no matter WHAT kind of system anyone has, they'll never know how it sounds compared to the real one that they are listening to a facsimile of, no?? Meaning, no matter what you're listening to you will never know if the sound in your room exactly matches the sound when it was recorded.  I'd even be willing to bet that most of us would agree that the sound that was created (prior to recording) is probably not the EXACT sound that is on our LP, CD anyway (because of the entire recording process), no? 

So, if what I am listening to will NEVER have the exact "twing" or "twang" that existed when the cymbol was struck, why would I want to sit there and fret over the small differences that might not even exist?  And if they DO (differences) exist, as they likely to, isn't it fair that your more perfect reproduction system (we'll call it wine & cheese) is only reproducing what the engineer "produced" as opposed to maybe 'exactly' what he heard?  (honest question since I'm dumb on recording)  so, which is more "real"??  that which he heard or that which he produced?

I just don't find it in me to sit there and fret that my cymbol sounds did a twing instead of a twang.  They sound like cymbols to me and are (probably) 99% "close enough" and I get to keep some extra cash in my pockets!

For me, that's a good thing!

DeanG:

I was kidding!

I'm sure what you're saying has a lot to do with it. Holding a slice of pizza and glass of beer up in front of your face will also compound the problem. Honestly, I think source material plays a big role too. I don't know about Richard, but I don't listen to Jazz, Classical, or female vocalists -- I do Rock-n-Roll and DVD movies and concerts. I truly believe my source material minimizes the differences between gear (to a point).

Ahhhh, we now have at least 3 points of total agreement:

1. Eating pizza and drinking beer while listening won't get 'er done for absorbing subtlties

2. A weak link component if it is bad enough will mask everything (EV? whatever)

3. Lousy source material negates the need for anything fancy

Hey - - c'mon not bad Dean!

Coytee:

mdeneen:

What was funny (in a good way) was your disdain and bewilderment at why anyone would chain themselves to a chair and actually SIT AND LISTEN to all the nuances, like air and all that other dumb stuff!

Bewilderment yes

Disdain?  I don't know that I ever said nor even suggested that?  (if what ever I said DID infer that, then I apologize for the faux pas but you DO have me on the bewildered part!)

If a cymbol that was recorded in a booth/stage miles away from me, was recorded using XYZ equipment, compressed by the engineers, tweeked by the engineers, has a twang instead of a twing, how the heck am I going to know how the cymbol in the ROOM sounded when it was struck and recorded? To sit there and 'fret' (for lack of better word) over that just can't be done by me.

Odds are no matter WHAT kind of system anyone has, they'll never know how it sounds compared to the real one that they are listening to a facsimile of, no?? Meaning, no matter what you're listening to you will never know if the sound in your room exactly matches the sound when it was recorded.  I'd even be willing to bet that most of us would agree that the sound that was created (prior to recording) is probably not the EXACT sound that is on our LP, CD anyway (because of the entire recording process), no? 

So, if what I am listening to will NEVER have the exact "twing" or "twang" that existed when the cymbol was struck, why would I want to sit there and fret over the small differences that might not even exist?  And if they DO (differences) exist, as they likely to, isn't it fair that your more perfect reproduction system (we'll call it wine & cheese) is only reproducing what the engineer "produced" as opposed to maybe 'exactly' what he heard?  (honest question since I'm dumb on recording)  so, which is more "real"??  that which he heard or that which he produced?

I just don't find it in me to sit there and fret that my cymbol sounds did a twing instead of a twang.  They sound like cymbols to me and are (probably) 99% "close enough" and I get to keep some extra cash in my pockets!

For me, that's a good thing!

No need whatsoever to justify your preferences for listening, or stamp collecting, or gardening, or beer making. People do these things to satisfy and entertain themselves. Now me, I could never for the life of me understand how a rational human being would burn 3 or 4 hours off their life watching football on TV, but go figure, huh? I'd just as soon be chainsawed to death in my own bed, than watch grown men play with a ball on the television. 

It's not really important WHY people do this Coytee, just that they DO. And those who do, jabber endlessly about the subtleties of it, whether it is audio or football or golf or stamp collecting. Ever been to a BBQ when the stamp collector tries to have a conversation with a vermint hunter? 

Enjoy your Jubs! 

I remember when K Horns were the uncontested king of the hill (if you had corners) and everyone just fought about the La Scala's bass response, SS vs tubes and SET vs push pull, CD vs LP.  Ah the good ole' days when we also didn't get along...

I have to say that I do love to listen to music.  I did not listen for months as I was to stressed out (I specialize in real estate law - rough market).  I have been listening lately and really relaxing, as I am right now (James Taylor is on).  My wife will never understand, but I have done this my whole life. 

This thread has been interesting, I need to stop by more often.  I'd still like to hear a pair of the Palladiums.  Will they be at CES? 

They will be empty cabinets at CES is my understanding.

I'm hoping to be demoing them in my house, however that is unlikely to occur in 2008 :(

Interesting thread , some mild sparks here and there . I am suprised that no one has asked smillin THE QUESTION .

Soo , how much for the smillinwalls ?!

$1000 for used cornwalls, only $14,000 to go...

DeanG:

"Right. I understand you don't hear it. And then it remains as to why?"

After living with the set up for a while the answer is because it's not there. There's no grain, hash, haze or glare -- none of the things I used to hear with solid state.

or maybe you just can't hear that kind of stuff in your old age (ear wise) 

sunburnwilly:

Interesting thread , some mild sparks here and there . I am suprised that no one has asked smillin THE QUESTION .

Soo , how much for the smillinwalls ?!

Amy Unger:

Coytee:

So, I was suggesting they probably had the marketing department in on the design of it to more of a degree than they had the marketing department involved in the Khorn, LaScala or Jubilee (in their respective beginnings).

 

The marketing department had exactly zero say in the design of the Palladium line.  All the development that went into it came from the engineering center downstairs (Industrial Design, Mechanical Design, Acoustic Engineering, etc).

Then the P39 would be 9 million feet tall and 9 million feet wide , I see marketing department not as a bad thing all the times, they help keep the mad engineers from going absolutely crazy!

IB Slammin:

DeanG:

The Jubilee, of course, has that Heritage sound.

No it doesn't! The "Heritage sound" is a honky colored midrange and a raspy tweeter!

Deano,

Good point. How many think that Jubilee has that Heritage sound?    I for one, think that it does not.

..........The "Heritage sound" is a honky colored midrange and a raspy tweeter!........ However, I will not go there!

tc

When I went to the Indy Pilgrimage, being a never before listener of heritage speakers I must say. The Jubilee were excellent at producing exact copies of what is recorded. I had a music cd that I played on the Jubilee (both) and it sounded awful. Trey warned me about putting mp3 in them but trust me, I actually brought the cd and made copies (who wants to bring the original on vacation and have them broken) but since its an exact copy there should be no derivation unless you want to go into psychoacoustics and whatnot about different cds and black magic). BTW the cd was The Killers - Hot Fuss Limited Edition. The sound sounded like it was compressed and horribly mastered.

I played the same cd on the 60th edition Klipschorns (the one speakerfritz owns) guess what, much improved as it sounded like it should sound like being warm and uncompressed (I guess hiding the compression), different from the Jubilee but direct and different but not worse.

The Cornwall, I believe the room played a big part as All I could hear was upper midrange and treble...... not much help

Listening to the LaScala at IndyKlipschFan made a mind altering experience of what I thought of lascalas. Effortless sound and dynamics of whoa.

Listening to Colter's Cornwalls made a huge impression, the cornwalls are more to my liking as they sound closer to reference series then lascala and klipschorn and jubilee. It gives me that bass punch that the lf horns cannot do to me. I know flame me now.....

Listening to Colters Klipschorns made an impression, they sounded a bit different from the 60th but close. I liked them but all colter had was jazz so I couldn't evaluate throughly.

The RF-83 I knew what they sound like but they sounded remarkably different in a large room.

I guess the problem is that each room is different. The Jubilees did not sound to me like heritage also but this again was different location, time, and mood (yes I will admit that my mood drastically alters how I perceive things) But I ask myself if I were to group the jubilee, I would have to say heritage due to the large horns I guess?

DeanG:

I was kidding!

I'm sure what you're saying has a lot to do with it. Holding a slice of pizza and glass of beer up in front of your face will also compound the problem. Honestly, I think source material plays a big role too. I don't know about Richard, but I don't listen to Jazz, Classical, or female vocalists -- I do Rock-n-Roll and DVD movies and concerts. I truly believe my source material minimizes the differences between gear (to a point).

Most of my music is modern, pop, rock, indie, rap, etc. I do have Jazz and classical and female vocalist but to a limited degree.

Also I use SS and my computer many a time for convenance, I find it hard for myself (I guess my generation, *** you iPod and the shuffle feature) to put on cd in and listen from front to back without skipping songs, fast forwarding, getting bored..... Half the time I try to critically evaluate music or the speakers, I lose myself in something else and it becomes background music, then when the song ends I go oh wait, I totally missed the song, hit back and do it all over again. To be honest the best time I remember a song is the minutes right before I fall asleep or the minutes in the morning that I wake up (gasp radio alarm clock!)