2-Channel Audio

Re: Bose 901

Mighty Favog — Fri, 23 May 2008 15:24:55 GMT

Yea, I've heard those answers from them before. One time I called them and flat out asked "For those of us that CAN interpret all the numbers and stats: what are you affraid of?? Won't the people that don't understand them just ignore them most of the time". "I mean, there's the whole sound reproduciton industry that has been doing this for many, many years....and then there's Dr. Bose. And your telling me I'm supposed to believe he's the only one who's right??"

The one that got me was that they have Rush Limbaugh and Paul Harvey as spokes persons. Two people with documented hearing problems. But hey, the demographic that Bose is pulling the wool over the eyes of, love those two guys.

Re: Bose 901

Groomlakearea51 — Fri, 23 May 2008 14:50:03 GMT

Bill Cain:

Mighty Favog:
That's something you can do yourself in a fairly dead room with volt-ohm and SPL meters. Then throw in a good 1-khz test tone.

If it's so simple, why doesn't B*S* publish such info?

Because..... They state in their literature, in substance, that specs are basically meaningless and an owner should concentrate on the overall experience....... Really!! I'm not kidding!!! Here's a party line answer to that question from their tech folks...

Dear ***,

Thank you for your inquiry. Bose (R) Corporation does not publish frequency responses, simply because they are not accurate and usually will mislead the customer.

Frequency responses are usually measured with testing equipment set up in an anechoic chamber. An anechoic chamber is an isolated room designed so that sound will not reflect off any surfaces. Giving out such frequency response results is terrific- for those people who live in anechoic chambers! Most of us listen to our systems in rooms with very reflective surfaces, such as plaster, brick, glass, and dry wall, so the frequency response that a manufacturer may supply is no longer accurate. Just as no two rooms have the same dimensions, nor are they decorated exactly the same or have the same construction, no two rooms will sound the same when using the exact same
speakers and amplifier.

For example, if you were to place any speaker in a room with no carpeting and wooden furniture, you would hear something completely different than if they were placed in a room with shag carpeting and plush furniture. Perhaps
this can be equated by imagining a single lighted candle placed in a room with completely black floors, walls and ceiling. Obviously, the same candle when placed in a room with white surroundings will appear to be emitting
much more light than when placed in the first room with black surroundings, as the light will reflect a great deal more off the white surfaces. Sound reflects off surfaces, much like light does. The surroundings make the speakers sound different in the same manner, because they actually are able to reproduce different frequencies via sound reflection and speaker placement.

We hope you do not take the fact that we do not publish speaker frequency responses personally. We do not publish our speakers specifications to anybody, whether it be before or after they have purchased a speaker system
of ours. We simply invite our customers to listen to our speakers using the most accurate testing equipment possible- their ears.

If we can be of additional assistance in the future, please contact us toll free at (800) 999-2673 extension EM1, or email us from our Bose website

And......... here's another "answer"

Bose does not publish frequency specifications. The reason for this is that we believe that such statistics do not add very much to an understanding of an audio product's acoustic characteristics and, even worse, can be misleading. Audio manufacturers make these measurements independent of industry standards, and in varying conditions. Additionally, a single statistic is not a reliable measurement of a product's performance. One could, for instance, find a very expensive system with exactly the same specifications as a much less expensive system. On paper, the two would appear identical. The difference in performance, however, would be significant. A better approach, we feel, is to listen to the product.

Thank you for contacting Bose Corporation.

In the original 68's, the freqs, etc were discussed in a booklet, and they included two test reports, one from E&E Labs and one from Hirsch-Houck Labs, but by 1970 or so, they stopped including those booklets/reports.

With the EQ's set at mid point, and the -40Hz button "off", the 68's I had produced 84 dB 1w/1m at center point with a 1000Hz tone. The 2008's produced 86dB. Dead on axis with one or the other, about 87dB, Off axis to the left or right, decreased by about 1dB every 10 degrees, until about greater than 30 degrees off axis (or up against the side wall), 83dB.

That, however, was only in the room in which they were tested....

Re: Bose 901

Bill Cain — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:19:02 GMT

Don Richard:
B*S*... I like it!

PWK liked it also. I have one of his little yellow buttons.......

Re: Bose 901

Bill Cain — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:16:11 GMT

Mighty Favog:

That's something you can do yourself in a fairly dead room with volt-ohm and SPL meters. Then throw in a good 1-khz test tone.

If it's so simple, why doesn't B*S* publish such info?

Re: Bose 901

Don Richard — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:09:31 GMT

Bill Cain:

Where do you find db/1w efficiency ratings of the B*S* 901?

B*S*... I like it!

IIRC the midband efficiency of the 901s wasn't bad, about 94dB or so. Bass efficiency was around 86dB. Bass distortion with the B*S* equalizer in use exceeded 100% below 30 Hz.

Re: Bose 901

Mighty Favog — Thu, 22 May 2008 14:51:33 GMT

That's something you can do yourself in a fairly dead room with volt-ohm and SPL meters. Then throw in a good 1-khz test tone.

Re: Bose 901

Bill Cain — Thu, 22 May 2008 14:23:45 GMT

colterphoto1:

Take one pair of Klipsch LaScalas and one Crown DC300 - how many Bose 901's and how much power does it take to equal the output?

Where do you find db/1w efficiency ratings of the B*S* 901?

Re: Bose 901

blsamuel — Thu, 22 May 2008 14:06:00 GMT

Now to do that I'd need to know the output of the amplifiers, the sensitivity of the speakers, the maximum output of the speakers, and increase in SPL by adding more speakers. I have no idea how much increase in SPL can be found by adding more pairs of speakers. Not sure how that works. It takes twice the amplifier power to produce an extra 3 db in output.

A quick check on the Bose site and I see no such information for the 901. I think LaScalas will produce 104 or 105 db with 1 watt of input and max out at 121 db. I have no idea of the power capability of the DC 300 but at 104 db at 1 watt it'll take about 64 watts to hit 121 db with the La Scalas. I'll assume the Crown DC300 will still have plenty of juice left to drive the La Scalas to 121 db.

The Bose 901 are notoriously inefficient so even at 90 db sensitivity it'll take something like 1024 watts to get 120 db. I suspect the sensitivity is less and that a single pair and will max out in total output well before 120 db?

So maybe 6 pairs and 6 KW? A not at all scientific wag.

And in the end, the single pair of La Scalas will sound better to most people anyway. From that perspective, they don't seem so heavy after all... Let's see, 2 heavy beasts and one reasonable amplifier or 12 lighter boxes and 6 or more mambo huge amplifiers. Volume wise, the single pair of La Scalas and single amp would take up a lot less space.

I'm looking forward to the answer.

Re: Bose 901

colterphoto1 — Thu, 22 May 2008 12:13:29 GMT

We had a newbies quiz at the PA company I worked for as a young roadster.

Take one pair of Klipsch LaScalas and one Crown DC300 - how many Bose 901's and how much power does it take to equal the output?

Do it, it's fun.

Re: Bose 901

colterphoto1 — Thu, 22 May 2008 12:03:36 GMT

Let's call it this - H, H I, H-I, H 1 = various nomenclatures for the original Heresy. Marshall deals with all the various models so to avoid confusion he calls them I II III in roman numerals. This seems to work for nearly everyone perfectly ok.

HI, and only HI is the Heresy Industrial, HIP is the Heresy Industrial Ported as described in the literature

mmmmmk?

geesh - tell ya what - everyone go outside and play today - just step away from the keyboard and go get some fresh air.

Re: Bose 901

Groomlakearea51 — Thu, 22 May 2008 11:45:05 GMT

Correct. I use the Roman numeral "I", "II", as a matter of "convention" when I write. I always refer to Heresy type 1's as H-I's, 2's as H-II's, and H-III's, etc., as a "shorthand" notation as in the fashion used by the factory. Sometimes, I get in a hurry, or forget to put in the "-"!! LOL!!

Re: Bose 901

Bill Cain — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:15:01 GMT

Groomlakearea51:
I was discussing the Heresy-I (type 1), and I should have been more clear. Industrials are more often called HIP's

FWIW,

Heresy Industrial = HI

Heresy Industrial Ported = HIP

Re: Bose 901

Groomlakearea51 — Wed, 21 May 2008 13:33:39 GMT

I was discussing the Heresy-I (type 1), and I should have been more clear. Industrials are more often called HIP's... Sorry for any confusion, loss of sleep, ED issues, etc....

Re: Bose 901

fenderbender — Tue, 20 May 2008 23:38:17 GMT

Bill Cain:
clspruiell:
Hey what is HI? im sitting here trying to figure out what that means... Heritage something???
Heresy Industrial.

See....my wife is right!

Re: Bose 901

Bill Cain — Tue, 20 May 2008 22:50:39 GMT

clspruiell:
Hey what is HI? im sitting here trying to figure out what that means... Heritage something???

Heresy Industrial.