HELP NEED MORE BASS - The Klipsch Community
in
Advanced Search
KLIPSCH - The Ultimate Sound Experience

HELP NEED MORE BASS

Last post 07-11-2008 5:23 PM by colterphoto1. 9 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (10 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • 03-16-2008 4:22 PM

    HELP NEED MORE BASS

    Here is my issue. I have a large basement room 30x15. I am using half of it about 15x15 for my HT. I have Chorurs IIs, academy, and 4 heresy IIs for surround. All driven by rotel amps. The room has a cement floor. I want bass you can feel. I have a SVS PB ultra 2 in the front right corner and a SVS CS ultra (driven by a carver 1.5) in the back corner. I just bought a Integra 9.8 in hopes that the audssey would help on the lack of bass ( It did, a bit) Last night I had people over and the kids were watching the Bee movie while the adults were upstairs having drinks. There were a couple of times that (upstairs) i thought the house was going to come off the foundation. I went downstairs and noted the passages in the movie. Later on, I replayed the passages while I was down stairs. Decent bass, but quite frankly there is quite a bit more upstairs. I am considering another sub, but I think I have plenty since the house is literally moving. HELP! My friend thinks i should put 2x4s on the concrete, then tounge-in-groove plywood covered with carpet. He says that this will allow the room to move. He blames the whole mess on the concrete. Has anyone else been in my boat? Thanks Ken Ka
  • 03-17-2008 2:48 AM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    A 30x15 room and using 15x15 of it for HT...The only thing lacking in contributing to the problem is a 9, 12, or 15 foot ceiling!

    The easy money is that you are sitting in a null determined by the room dimensions. And SW placement in the corners will drive and reinforce this null to the greatest degree.

    Adding more bass or magic processors will not remove a null.

    You might want to move your seating position or change the dimensions of the room.  I suspect the former is easier.

    Nobody gets in to see the Wizard.
    Not Nobody. Not No How.

    The Law of Conservation of Ignorance: A false conclusion once arrived at & widely accepted is not easily dislodged, & the less it is understood the more tenaciously it is held.

    Scarecrow: I haven't got a brain... only straw.
    Dorothy: How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
    Scarecrow: I don't know... But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking... don't they?

    Chico: Hey, wait, wait. What does this say here? This thing here.
    Groucho: Oh, that? Oh, that's the usual clause. That's in every contract. That just says uh, it says uh, "If any of the parties participating in this contract is shown not to be in their right mind, the entire agreement is automatically nullified."
    Chico: Well, I don't know...
    Groucho: It's all right, that's, that's in every contract. That's, that's what they call a 'sanity clause'.
    Chico: Ha ha ha ha ha! You can't fool me! There ain't no Sanity Clause!

    Offers not good after curfew in sectors R or N,.
  • 03-27-2008 12:55 PM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

     

    Hello Ken,
    I have some quick questions for you before I give you some tips.

    First what frequency is the x-over set at on the Integra? If you have it set at a low frequency like 40-60 Hz does the LFE level output increase when you select THX processing?

     

    Tip1:

    Disable the subwoofer in the back of the room and play a continuous low frequency test tone though the subwoofer located in the front of the room at a loud level, THX reference would be a good choice. If you have a DVD with subwoofer frequency test tone use that to generate the low frequency, If you don’t have a DVD you can down load tones here.

    http://www.stompaudio.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6793

     

    With the test tone now being produced from the primary subwoofer walk to the front of the room and slowly walk back to the listening position and beyond noting the differences in LFE output. Adjust your seat forward or back to the first practical position that had the most LFE, sometimes only a foot forward or backward will make a big difference.

     

    Tip2:

    Move the primary subwoofer from the front of the room and position it at the listening position leaving the secondary subwoofer at the back of the room disabled. With a low frequency tone playing in repeat through the subwoofer located at the listening position start at the front left corner of the room and crawl along all four walls slowly noting what positions reproduce the most LFE. If you have an SPL meter you can use that but you should note significant differences depending on where you are in the room. Once you have completed this figure out what location are suitable for the subwoofer and place it there.

     

    Now that you have the primary subwoofer placed at the practical location that produced the most LFE sit in the listening position and measure the LFE output with your SPL meter, if you don’t have an SLP meter you will just have to mentally note the amount of LFE. Once you get a good reading and feel for the amount of LFE change the phase of the subwoofer and re measure the amount of LFE at the listening position. If your subwoofer has a variable phase start at 180 degrees and work back from there. Set the phase at the position that produces the most LFE. You have now completed setting up the primary subwoofer.

     

    Setting up two subwoofer that have different specifications in the same room can be a little tricky without an acoustical analyzer but it can be done with a little patience and trial and error. Installing a second subwoofer in the room should help to even out the frequency response in a large room. To install the secondary subwoofer try installing it directly opposite of your primary subwoofer on the opposite wall. Once this is completed calibrate the secondary subwoofer to reference level, since you have two different subwoofers you might want to calibrate the primary subwoofer to -5db below reference and then calibrate the second subwoofer to reference level with both subwoofers reproducing the LFE tone. If done correctly this will insure that your primary or better subwoofer located in the primary position will be reproducing the majority of the LFE while the secondary or lesser subwoofer will be used for fill in. This may or may not be a correct solution depending on your room dynamics. Typically a +75 dB reading in most rooms using an SPL meter will end up sounding dry and a little week because there is an error reading low frequency’s using an SPL meter at the lower end of the frequency range. Generally adding +3-+5 dB to the adjusted subwoofer calibration will correct the calibration error. Relying on Automatic calibration software regardless of manufacture is NOT and alternative for low frequency calibration. Now that you have both of your subwoofers calibrated switch the phase on the secondary subwoofer, if you heard or measured an increase in SPL at the listening position this means the secondary subwoofer may be canceling out the primary subwoofers LFE output at different frequencys or it could be that the secondary subwoofers position interacts better with the room dynamic out of phase. If this occurs you will need to set the secondary subwoofers phase at the position that reproduced the most amount of LFE with the primary subwoofer reproducing the LFE in conjunction with the secondary subwoofer and recalibrate.

     

    Although this is not an optimal solution for installing subwoofers in a high end system it should get you in the ball park without using an expensive audio analyzer and equalizer. I hope I dint miss anything but I may have considering I have only had one cup of Java and it’s early.

     

    Best regards,

    Ray

     

     

     

     

     

  • 04-01-2008 10:30 AM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    Good luck man,  That has been my complaint with my basement.  See my threads about room treatments and nulls.  the other night my friend was downstairs watching and elton john concert dvd, i was upstairs above the basement, my teeth were chattering because of the bass below me.  but my seating position has a null.  for now, im going to try major bass trapping to see if perhaps my problem isnt really just a null.  that should smooth out the bass, but we'll see if that helps the dead spot.  i really think that the dimensions of the room are the main culpret.  plus in a basement you get zero wall/floor reinforcement.  that can be good if treated correctly, but could also sound like "less" bass. 

    Klipsch La Scala
    Klipsch Cornwall II
    Klipsch Heresy I
    Klipsch KG 5.5
    Klipsch KG 3.5
    Klipsch Chorus II
    Klipsch Forte II
    Klipsch Quartet (surrounds)
    Klipsch forte I (center)
    Klipsch Quintets
    Klipsch SW-15 Series II
    Klipsch SW-12 Series II
    Klipsch SW-12 Series II (another one hehe)Velodyne HGS 18 Series II
    Sony DA50ES Receiver
    Harman Kardon AVI200 Integrated AmpMarantz Model 1150 Subwoofer amp
    Harman Kardon AVR 8000
  • 05-30-2008 3:32 PM In reply to

    • artto
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-19-2002
    • Chicago area
    • Posts 2,130

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    MAS hit it on the head. Move around. At some place you'll surely find the bass absolutely oppressive.

    The dimesions & proportions of the room, relative to where you are sitting/listening, is contibuting to the problem.

    Klipschorns R&L 76, Belle Klipsch center 79
    trio of Luxman MB3045 triode power amps,
    Audio Research SP6B preamp,
    Linn LP12 w/OriginLive Ultra PS&motor, Morch UP4 arm, & Decca Jubilee pickup
    Thorens TD125MKII/SME III/Shure V15-Vmr
    McIntosh MX130, Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck, Sony A7 Digital audio tape deck
    Shanling SCD-T200 sacd player, Denon 600F cd player
    Topaz Line2 power regulation, Furman power conditioning/monitoring; and of course, the proverbial, dedicated, acoustically tuned, listening room
  • 06-13-2008 10:32 PM In reply to

    • BE36
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-14-2008
    • Metro Detroit
    • Posts 70

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    Ever hear of noise cancellation head sets.

    Same signal 180 degrees out of phase will cancel each other out, hardly any sound is heard.

    If you have phase angle adjustment on one of your subs try different phase angles.  When I had Forte IIs working against my Velodyne 1500 the phase angle made a huge difference.  There are 4 settings on the Velodyne, 0, 90, 180, 270.  To varing degrees 2 of the setttings; all most no bass.  The other 2 much stronger with one being the clear winner.

    Placement both listener and speaker do make a big difference but 2 speakers can easly cancel each other out and make a bigger difference.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control

    I am in a 24 x 15 basement.  HT in a 10 x 15 area. 

     

    La Scala, Forte II (Office), Academy, RS-7s , Samsung LCD, Uverse, Elite VSX-92TXH, Adcom GFA- 535II, 5400; GCD-700
  • 06-14-2008 3:20 AM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    Unless there is a solid partition, your sub 'sees' a 30x15 room. This is really quite enormous. At 8 feet height, that's 3600 ft3, requiring the THX sub system for substantial bass. 

     

    Like the guys said, placement is everything. DO NOT sit against the back wall whatever you do, bass builds up along walls and in corners.  

    Upstairs, you had 'floor shock' because of the framing of the house- you really could FEEL the bass. Downstairs on the concrete floor you lost that visceral sensation.  

    operating 'The House of Klipsch' since 2003, currently liquidating unused Klipsch product

  • 06-14-2008 8:13 AM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

     it's been 90 days...maybe it's solved

    60th Anniversary Klipschorn; 50th Anniversary Bridge mono pair of Mcintosh MC-2000, C-1000C/C-1000T, MDA-1000, MS-300; ,Sigma Retro, M-2.2, AVS2000, HTPS7000; 5000VA BPT. Enough parts to build a pair of MCM Grand 4’s, if Roy would sell me a pair of unmounted K-150’s and K-402’s.
  • 07-10-2008 12:02 PM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

     Hmm great advice and no feedback?  My only problem with newbies!!!

    HT: 2008 My Dream La Scala HT System for downstairs is finally done. 7 Split La Scala's, (Timbre up front DOES matter!) Two Klipsch THX KSW 120 subs, with the KA 1000 Amp, with the Velodyne SMS-1, Bass management system, with 2 THX series KS-525's as side surrounds. WOW! Dedicated 17' x 30' room, 106" Daylite screen, with the Infocus 7210 DLP Projector. Sunfire Theater Grand IV, Sunfire Signature series 200 x 7 amp. OK, It IS Klipsch Nirvana, for me. The ticket booth is open, and the popcorn machine works too! Dim the lights, on with the show!!
  • 07-11-2008 5:23 PM In reply to

    Re: HELP NEED MORE BASS

    last visit April 10,  2008

     

    maybe he fell in... 

    operating 'The House of Klipsch' since 2003, currently liquidating unused Klipsch product

Page 1 of 1 (10 items)
The Ultimate Sound Experience
©2008 Klipsch Audio Technologies. All rights reserved.