Gary, That is an interesting mix of songs. Honestly, I wouldn't have guessed it would be those. Nevertheless I still think it will be a very good show.

mark1101:

Gary, That is an interesting mix of songs. Honestly, I wouldn't have guessed it would be those.

As with most pop music, I couldn't possibly identify any of the Symphony's tunes on hearing them, and tuning into the words, or even understanding them, is an out-and-out deficiency in me.  Yet, I can immediately identify any Beethoven symphony on hearing nothing more than the first chord.  I'll bet most GD fans could immediately start humming the tune and singing the words.  I don't know if that takes any more skill than listening closely and catching on to very familiar classical works.

Over the years I have found that either people love and catch on to the Dead.....or it simply isn't for them. They play loose versions of their songs such that there is no repetition. You can hear the same song 100 times and no two versions are the same. There is no "out of bounds" with the sounds they make with their insturments. They play just about every genre of music and the thing they call "space" is all their own. Either you love it or you change the channel. They were not great vocalists.......I can tell you that.

Being a Dead Head and an audiophile can be somewhat frustrating as well. While they recorded all their shows, the recordings are inconsistent. There are some gems, and their later stuff was recorded decent but some are really bad. For the last few years they have been restoring and releasing the "vault" tapes. These are the best ones......along with past and current Phil Lesh and Friends and Ratdog tour recordings. You can get much pleasure from these.

Also, if you want to learn about the Dead and hear their great variety.....Sirius Channel 32. They have their own satellite radio station and it is excellent.

Speaking of Sirius, over the holiday weekend, they played many of the GD's "outdoor" concerts.  The first I heard on Saturday was my first ever Dead show,  1973 at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.  I told my parents I was meeting friends at the library to study.  That was a LONG day at the library for a 13 year old!  I can't remember if I got caught (thank goodness we had no cell phones back then) but when I tell my parents stories about my misspent youth such as that one, they cover their ears and beg me not to tell.  Having kids in their 20's myself, I understand exactly where they're coming from.

LarryC:

mark1101:

Gary, That is an interesting mix of songs. Honestly, I wouldn't have guessed it would be those.

Gary loaned me several GD CDs and it's been interesting.  It's a kind of music I have rarely heard and never listened closely to.

As with most pop music, I couldn't possibly identify any of the Symphony's tunes on hearing them, and tuning into the words, or even understanding them, is an out-and-out deficiency in me.  Yet, I can immediately identify any Beethoven symphony on hearing nothing more than the first chord.  I'll bet most GD fans could immediately start humming the tune and singing the words.  I don't know if that takes any more skill than listening closely and catching on to very familiar classical works.

How interesting- while Larry was listening to the Grateful Dead this weekend, I was playing a Mozart disk that he'd sent to me. We're certainly cross-educating ourselves- another great benefit of this Forum friendship!

colterphoto1:

As with most pop music

Mike, I know you weren't refering to the Dead as "pop" just wanted to clarify, cause some might think you were.

Brac:

colterphoto1:

As with most pop music

Mike, I know you weren't refering to the Dead as "pop" just wanted to clarify, cause some might think you were.

Gary, I was hoping someone would help me out with the correct term. It's been a long time for me, I am not a "real deadhead". I just know i was offened by the term pop. Of course that was when I thought Mike had used it, Knowing your choice is always classical, I find it, well, less offensive coming from you. I would think maybe folks were waiting on me, while I was waiting for backup.

Just as an example I saw the term ska (type of music) used recently on the forum. I haven't a clue and couldn't pick that out of a lineup. But the term "pop" brings to mind the likes of semi-black noseless child molester's, (mj) and trainwrecks (brittany). Just a bad feeling associsted with the term.

I do listen to classical some times but it is over sirrius channels so I never know who I'm listening to. Sometimes I put it on for the dogs when I'm going out, you know music soothes the savage beast, well it don't.

Actually, I'm Larry.  I still find it easier to use the word "pop" as a generic term, when I have no idea what else to call anything that is not jazz or some other things I don't know about (like hip-hop, whatever TF that is).  Suggestions are welcome!  Until then, I guess I'll just call the other stuff "non-classical."

There isn't any one word that can describe the Grateful Dead's music.  It's all over the place.  Sometimes it's country or folk rock, other times it's jazzy, quite often it's pure rock n' roll and in many cases it's psychedelic rock.  Oh yeah, don't forget bluegrass.  Jerry spent a good part of 1973 as the banjo player for a group called "Old And In The Way" along with bluegrass legends Vasser Clements, Pete Rowan and David Grisman.

I forgive Larry for using "pop" as a description.  In Larry's world there's classical and "everything else." :)

To  me, "Pop" is a sub genre of Rock, meant to convey music intended for popular culture - that is trying to appeal to the day's taste and not interested in musicianship.  Pop also implies music made to make money, not art for arts sake. The Grateful Dead, pretty much stood for the opposite. 

Trying to classify the Dead is not possible. The general term Rock fits, but with strong undertones of Blue Grass from Garcia, Blues (esp from the early days with Pig Pen), and Jazz, with enough americana experimental thrown in to keep you guessing.

What I find very interesting is a more recent sub genre - Jam Band - traces its roots directly to the Dead. 

It makes me smile to think someone would listen to an April '77, or Summer '72, or December '79 show and think "pop".  Maybe like listening to Miles Davis Bitches Brew and thinking Dixieland.

peace,

TommyK

Gary, What is your favorite sounding release from the Dead?  Official Release or Bootleg?

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry but that's an impossible question to answer.  I have my favorite studio recordings and favorite live shows but even those are impossible to put in any kind of order.  I love the early, bass-heavy bootlegs from 69-71 like some of the Hollywood Palladium and Fillmore West shows.  '77 was the greatest touring year IMO and shows like Englishtown, Cornell, Rochester, etc. are all amazing.  '74 Roosevelt Stadium - Help-Slipknot-Franklins is hard to beat from a recording standpoint, even on my old maxell.  Whoever recorded that show did an amazing job capturing Phil at his best.  JGB, Warner Theater, Washington, D.C. '78, late show - w/Maria Muldaur and others is one that's pretty special to me for a couple of reasons.  I was there for one although I went to about 200+ shows so it can't be that alone.  Maybe my favorite live Jerry solo of all time was during The Harder They Come from that night's late show.  My good friend Bob was a DJ for the radio station (WHFS) that broadcasted the show and interviewed Garcia and he took the original soundboard tape from that set back to the studio and remixed it.  I borrowed that tape from him about 10 years ago and it's still in my car.  It's one of the most amazing recordings of Jerry I've ever heard.  I think it was about 2am when he played that song.

As far as studio recordings, I don't think you can beat the early green label Warner pressings.  I love the original W7 pressings of Anthem Of The Sun and Aoxomoxoa.  If you haven't heard the originals, you should make a point to find a copy.  They're pretty rare.  Particularly Aoxomoxoa as they were pulled from the shelves early on and replaced with what eventually became the "final mix."  I have 4 or 5 original copies of Aoxomoxoa and 2 or 3 of Anthem. In '80 or '81, Phil took Anthem Of The Sun back to the studio, remixed it and re-released it with a white cover.  I have a nice copy of that one too and it's really, really good. Their first LP in mono is pretty cool too.  It has the gold Warner label.

I could name 100 more but it's almost my bedtime.

How about you?  What are some of your favorites?

 If we started describing the various sub-types of 'popular' musics we'd be here a long time. Here's a few for the fun of it:

A primer from Wikipedia:

Pop music came from the Rock and Roll movement of the early 1950s, when record companies recorded songs that they thought that teenagers would like. Pop music usually uses musical styles from the other types of music that are popular at the time. Many different styles of music have become pop music during different time periods. Often, music companies create pop music styles by taking a style of music that only a small number of people were listening to, and then making that music more popular by marketing it to teenagers and young adults.

In the 1950s, recording companies took blues-influenced rock and roll (for example Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley) and rockabilly (for example Carl Perkins and Buddy Holly) and promoted them as pop music. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, record companies took folk music bands and musicians and helped them to create a new type of music called folk rock or acid rock. Folk rock and acid rock mixed folk music, blues and rock and roll (for example The ByrdsJanis Joplin). and In the 1970s, record companies created several harder, louder type of blues called blues rock or heavy metal, which became a type of pop music (for example the bands Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest).

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a type of nightclub dance music called Disco turned into a popular type of pop music. Record companies took an experimental, strange-sounding type of music called New Wave music from the 1980s and turned it into pop music bands such as The Cars. In the 1990s record companies took an underground type of hard rock called Grunge (for example the band Nirvana).

Larry, you have been listening to Acid Rock. 

Can you feel all the colors swirling in your head? 

Thanks Gary!

Your right, that was a loaded question.  I can understand how it would be difficult to pick out a performance based, but a sound wise only should help narrow down the highlights.  Sound quality has a huge distinction in these speakers.  It seems to bring out many flaws in the recordings and I find it hard to listen to some of my bootlegs due to this.  But the offical releases are a few steps better in quality than what we have circulating.  I have too much Dead to listen to for a lifetime.  About 1,400 GB on hard drives and about 600 or so CD's that need to be ripped onto the drives.  The official releases that I like sound wise are; "Ladies and Gentelmen The Grateful Dead",  "Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack" and Bonus songs on the DVD,  "Steppin' Out With The Grateful Dead" & "Rockin' The Rehin".  The Multi-track shows just Shine!!!   Cornell 77/ May 77, most of 73, Europe 72 &  Fall 72 are my favorite boots.

74 Roosevelt didnt have a Help-Slipknot!-Franklin's.  Didnt play that untill 75, except for a few Slipknot jams in 74.  Maybe 76 Roosevelt, with that ass pounding Phil bass, great show!  77 was a great touring year, but hard to give it a better overall year than anything from 72-74.  I will give you May 77 as one of the greatest tours ever.  And that Warner, DC 78 release is in my car as we speak, great couple of shows (early & late)!  I wish they would start releasing more JGB shows. 

How do you like the new Winterland 73 box set?