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ALK crossover upgrade with photos

Last post 11-04-2009 9:50 AM by DTLongo. 38 replies.
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  • 11-02-2009 11:47 AM In reply to

    • Rudy81
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-11-2002
    • Dallas, Texas
    • Posts 1,024

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    Al: Does the ES network not have the variable tap settings? Just curious, I used the mid tap settings quite a bit until I was able to dial in the mids.

    Parasound HALO A52, A23 amplification, Integra DHC 9.9 Pre/Pro, Panasonic BD-55 Blu Ray. Mains - Khorns W/ALK crossovers, Trachorns with JBL 2470 drivers, Eminence APT-150 tweeters, Center - La Scala W/ALK , Trachorn, JBL mid & APT-150, Side Effects - 4 Cornwalls, Sub - SVS 20-39 PC+ for movies and RSW-15 for music. 7.1 setup. Projector - Sharp Z12000, Dalite HP screen. HTPC for lossles .flac audio. My gear at: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm
  • 11-02-2009 12:03 PM In reply to

    • DTLongo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-16-2002
    • Maryland Eastern Shore
    • Posts 530

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    Al Klappenberger:
    Tom's picture #19 is actually me taking a picture of the cable Klipsch uses to connect the K33 driver to the AK-4 network. Notice that it has a plastic core that makes the cable seem larger then it really is. I can't see what else it could be for! Anyhow, I cut the plastic core away so the actual copper would all fit into the spade lugs I brought along.

    I am not an engineer or anything such but I think I recall reading somewhere some decades ago that electrons flow more easily or efficiently along the surface of a round-cross-section wire conductor than through the center.  IF that is true, then that may be the reason for the center core in the wire Al was examining.  If that is true, the purpose of the core was presumably to maximize the surface flow. 

    Perhaps someone with more technical savvy can confirm this one way or another. 

    Tom in Delmar, MD. 2003 Klipschorn mains, 2004 Belle Klipsch center and Velodyne S1500R servo subwoofer. Khorns upgraded in October 2009 with ALK Trachorns + ES-400T and ES-5800 crossovers. An Outlaw Model 970 tuner/preamp/processor feeds the three channels to an Outlaw Model 7075 75 wpc power amp through a Teac graphic equalizer for the right and left channels. HT in another room anchored by a Pioneer 50" plasma supported by a Harman-Kardon AVR-235 receiver, classic Large Advent mains, center channel is a (remarkably good!) RadioShack Minimus-7, sides and rears are Klipsch RS-35's plus a JBL B380 subwoofer modified with a dual-voice-coil Memphis 15" speaker to run off the main amp's subwoofer output through a separate old amplifier. A compact JBL PS100 sub behind the TV adds bottom to the center channel.
  • 11-02-2009 12:11 PM In reply to

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    Those crossovers are so impressive looking. I think you should have mirrored corners or such to show them off. Or maybe have the crossovers displayed on top, that might be cool too. They are downright massive.  

    The recliner steals away the tinkerer.

    The best place for a helping hand is at the end of your arm.

    KEEP YOUR WORD.
  • 11-02-2009 12:27 PM In reply to

    • Oblio
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-06-2007
    • Macon Ga
    • Posts 396

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

     

    DTLongo:
    I am not an engineer or anything such but I think I recall reading somewhere some decades ago that electrons flow more easily or efficiently along the surface of a round-cross-section wire conductor than through the center.  IF that is true, then that may be the reason for the center core in the wire Al was examining.  If that is true, the purpose of the core was presumably to maximize the surface flow. 

     

    That is true, IF you are talking about a solid conductor.  It is also one of the reasons conductor is braided, to increase the total surface area efficiently.  My guess is that the insulator that gives rise to a hollow braided conductor may be used to reduce inductance.

    '87 Oak Klipschorns
    '80 Heresy I's
    '84 Heresy I's
    Sansui 8080
    HK AVR-254
  • 11-02-2009 1:34 PM In reply to

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

     Several points:

    Yes, every network I have ever offered, except the one for the Cornwall, had the ability to set the sqawker level. 

    -------------

    The tendency for current to flow near the surface of a conductor is called "skin effect". It only happens at very high frequency.  At audio it does not happen at all and certainly not at woofer frequency!

    Al k.

     

  • 11-02-2009 1:53 PM In reply to

    • Rudy81
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-11-2002
    • Dallas, Texas
    • Posts 1,024

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    Al: I had only asked because I could not see the variable setting wires in the pictures.  Very nice networks.

    Parasound HALO A52, A23 amplification, Integra DHC 9.9 Pre/Pro, Panasonic BD-55 Blu Ray. Mains - Khorns W/ALK crossovers, Trachorns with JBL 2470 drivers, Eminence APT-150 tweeters, Center - La Scala W/ALK , Trachorn, JBL mid & APT-150, Side Effects - 4 Cornwalls, Sub - SVS 20-39 PC+ for movies and RSW-15 for music. 7.1 setup. Projector - Sharp Z12000, Dalite HP screen. HTPC for lossles .flac audio. My gear at: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm
  • 11-02-2009 2:24 PM In reply to

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

     Rudy,

    I think the reason you don't see the wires is because I changed the way I do it. Rather then run a wire from each transformer tap with a plug on each to a set of two terminals, I run two wires with plugs to fit the transformer taps. The other connections to taps 0 and 5 (the input) is also done differently. I use a heavy bare wire on ech to connect the 10 Ohm swamping resistor and the necessary wires to the rest of the network. That's the hared part. Running 7 separate wires and a plug on each is BORING! I actually got this idea from Dean Wescott, He does it in a similar way.

    Al K.

     


  • 11-02-2009 2:51 PM In reply to

    • Rudy81
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-11-2002
    • Dallas, Texas
    • Posts 1,024

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    I see.  Very nice, a much neater appearance.  Nice job as usual.

    Parasound HALO A52, A23 amplification, Integra DHC 9.9 Pre/Pro, Panasonic BD-55 Blu Ray. Mains - Khorns W/ALK crossovers, Trachorns with JBL 2470 drivers, Eminence APT-150 tweeters, Center - La Scala W/ALK , Trachorn, JBL mid & APT-150, Side Effects - 4 Cornwalls, Sub - SVS 20-39 PC+ for movies and RSW-15 for music. 7.1 setup. Projector - Sharp Z12000, Dalite HP screen. HTPC for lossles .flac audio. My gear at: http://www.prontoweb.com/klipsch_HT.htm
  • 11-04-2009 9:50 AM In reply to

    • DTLongo
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 10-16-2002
    • Maryland Eastern Shore
    • Posts 530

    Re: ALK crossover upgrade with photos

    As promised at the beginning of this string, here are listening impressions of my Klipschorns with the new ALK Trachorns and ES crossovers. These are based on a cumulative ca. 12 hours of listening over three days to a variety of material.

    Overall impression: The Khorns sound distinctly "sweeter" and fuller. There is greater, more precise separation of group-singing voices and of the inner voices of a symphony orchestra, particularly woodwinds. Plus, I encountered a major, pleasant surprise in the bass. The speakers sound fuller in the woofer range. I did not expect that, rather, I expected improvement basically in the midrange only. Al K. did say I would hear some improvement in the upper bass. It's counterintuitive and I don't what is the exact cause, but perhaps it is because of Al's default setting holding the midrange back 6 db (the level is adjustable).

    Anyway, the Klipschorn woofers seem now seem literally to have "bloomed" and to be much more in the action than they were before. In fact, need for a subwoofer is now eclipsed. I am running the Khorns now as much without as with my Velodyne S1500R sub. The sub still comes in handy to "excavate" some deep-low to augment program material that is otherwise bass-shy.

    Some specific listening examples:

    The Beach Boys - Endless Summer: One hears each of the voices such as really to sense the presence and the different voices of the individual performers.

    Other vocal music (Dean Martin, Dolly Parton): fuller sound and greater realism, they're truly in the room with you.

    Piano music: greater fullness, realism and tactile presence.

    Symphonic music. This is my forte, my primary listening. I am especially closely familiar with the sound of a local professional symphony on whose Board of Directors I sit, the Mid-Atlantic Symphony Orchestra (www.midatlanticsymphony.org). Since 2006 I have been making DVD's of selected MSO performances for archival and promotional purposes, using a Sony DCR-SR100 camcorder. .These are non-professional recordings using the camera's own microphone, which captures a commendably clear and articulate sound. Compared with the pre-ALK Klipschorns, the same recordings of the MSO sound sweeter with more precise instrument definition and separation, and fuller in the bass. Before, I had to crank the subwoofer to pull out bass to round out the sound. Now, the sub is essentially superfluous.

    Other symphonic:

    Boston Pops - Leroy Anderson's "A Christmas Festival." There is a passage where oboe and clarinet are playing in unison. The ALK upgrade separates the instruments so you can hear each. I had never before perceived that particular stretch as involving the two different instruments. Now I hear that clearly. Later in the piece where some really deep symphonic percussive bass comes in, the Khorns now pump that out way down low. They didn't before.

    Acid tests: the famous Telarc Tchaikovsky "1812" with the Cincinnati Symphony and the cannon shots, and the Telarc Saint-Saens Organ Symphony #3 with the Philadelphia Orchestra. With either, no subwoofer necessary! 1812 - The strings shine, they are luminescent. One has a sense of hearing actual multiple violins rather than a generic string sound. The non-cannon-shots orchestral deep bass thumps and crescendi are tactile. The cannon shots themselves come through the Khorns as excitedly as you can imagine. In fact, I have never heard this recording as thrillingly reproduced as it is now on the new setup, since sometime in the 1980's when I heard it through 1500 watts into a set of then-$40,000 Stonehenge-like Infinity Reference Standard speakers at a now-defunct retailer called Excalibur in Alexandria, VA.

    The Organ Symphony - Same general impression about the strings and about overall smoothness and precision as above. Plus, the opening and closing fortissimo portions of the Third Movement, played at volume, literally took my breath away. This was real, wall-shaking, pants-flapping sound, no kidding, like I had never heard before through those Klipschorns. Yet all undistorted and pure.

    My "Mighty Klipschorns" are now just that. They now whisper and roar palpably more clearly, precisely and satisfyingly than before.

    Tom in Delmar, MD. 2003 Klipschorn mains, 2004 Belle Klipsch center and Velodyne S1500R servo subwoofer. Khorns upgraded in October 2009 with ALK Trachorns + ES-400T and ES-5800 crossovers. An Outlaw Model 970 tuner/preamp/processor feeds the three channels to an Outlaw Model 7075 75 wpc power amp through a Teac graphic equalizer for the right and left channels. HT in another room anchored by a Pioneer 50" plasma supported by a Harman-Kardon AVR-235 receiver, classic Large Advent mains, center channel is a (remarkably good!) RadioShack Minimus-7, sides and rears are Klipsch RS-35's plus a JBL B380 subwoofer modified with a dual-voice-coil Memphis 15" speaker to run off the main amp's subwoofer output through a separate old amplifier. A compact JBL PS100 sub behind the TV adds bottom to the center channel.
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