Do I need a preamp now that I have an amplifier.  I thought that with my HK avr430 and now the parasound HCA-855A that I am pretty well setup.  The guy that is sending the amp said that I would greatly benefit from a preamp.  What is the verdict?  Oh yeah, and what magazine do you guys find the most informative for beginning audiophiles?

Thanks
Sam

Your HK AVR-430 IS a preamp.  A receiver is a power amp, a preamp and a tuner all in a single chassis.  In this case, you'll use the preamp outputs on the HK to feed the inputs on the Parasound power amp.  All your controls on the HK will still function.  All your sources will connect to the HK.  You'll run a 5 channel patch cord from the HK to the Parasound, connect your subwoofer to the sub out on the HK and connect your LCR and Surround speakers to the Parasound. 

Thaks, that is what I thought.  So will the AVR no longer have it's power available to help drive the speakers or is that soley on the amp now.  It seems that the only thing powered by the AVR will be my center channel, seeing as the sub is has its own internal amp.

Oops,
  the center is also powered by the amp, so what happens to the 65w that the avr has?  It just works less now?

You've got it right; the internal 65w/ch amp in the HK no longer does anything.  The power supply portion of the HK now only has to operate the preamp and tuner stages so it's like having a massively overbuilt power supply which is a benefit. 

Depending on the feature set of the HK, it might be possible to use its internal amp to run speakers in another zone in your house if that has any appeal.  Check the owners manual to see if they've set up the unit in this fashion. 

Thanks a bunch for the info.  So, then what exactly does a preamp do, other than what the name implies or is it that simple. 
Thanks
Sam

A true pre amp is supposed to give better sound than a receiver. Think of it this way, a receiver does it all power, pre, tuner etc. all in one package. The extra circuitry adds to the signal path. A pre amp is supposed to do just that send a very direct signal without the other crap getting in the way. So for the best set up a pre is the way to go however I am using the same setup you are ( receiver acting as a Pre ). I also have a true pre but I do not see that much difference.

Hope this helps since your friend metioned that you needed a pre amp.

I'm not sure that you "need" a preamp, but your overall sound quality would probably improve.  Generally, the sonic signature of the preamp (or processor in the receiver) usually has a larger overall effect on your quality of sound (vs. amps - of which the more neutral, the better). 

Tube preamps mated with solid state amps often provide a warmness and larger soundstage than certain solid state preamps.  I am not sure what tube pre Dylanl is or was running, but adding a nice tube pre to a solid state amp made a sizeable difference with my solid state amps.  On the other hand, many separate- quality preamps (solid state) provide more detail, separation in instruments/voices, and a larger soundstage as opposed to the processors found in receivers.  Obviously, the jump in quality is more apparent the higher (more expensive) you go up the prepro chain, and some of the entry level prepros may not be that radical of an improvement in sound (vs. using your receiver).     I went with a middle of the road prepro (Classe) and was very pleased with the improvement in sound.

But....you have one of the more musical processors in your H/K receiver.   You may like the sound as is, and feel the level of any improvement is not worth the added expense.    Fire it up for awhile and enjoy it.  Then, see if you need something different or better. 

But, going to separates was worth it for me......

Carl. 

Carl, I have 2 Scott integrated tube amps 233 & 299B, a Denon AVR 4800 Receiver, Yamaha Receiver,  Sony Pre 1000HSD, Marantz MM 9000 5 channel amp, HK 2 channel amp, Dynaco 2 channel amp.

My comment was based on SS matched with SS. When I compare my Denon Receiver to my Sony pre it is hard to tell. Tubes are a whole different story.

Oh, now I understand ---- me bad.....  Down the road, we need to compare your Denon to some entry to mid-level separates  (SS to SS) to see if we hear a difference.   If I'm ever in the neighborhood, I'll bring my Classe.  Plus, I know you have good taste.  After all, you still have your Altecs in the house.....

Carl. 

Thanks Carl. I live a little south of Pittsburgh, PA and the invitation is open to you year round to stop whenever you are close by.

I love to have forum members over.

Dylanl,

    What Altecs do you have, I have some model 14's that I had "gone over" just before we moved here to alaska.  I like them, they seem to be pretty efficient (close to the heresy's), but I do notice the horns don't sound quite as nice as klipsch.  Do you have any recommendations for them.  Also do they have a crossover, I haven't looked inside them and Orange county speakers in L.A. didn't mention anything, they just refoamed and tested them, saying they work fine.  I can't seem to find much on them.
Thanks
Sam

Sam, Dylanl has 1978 Altec Model 19s.  Check out this thread:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/505527/ShowPost.aspx

I have 1972 Altec Valencias (846 As) that I use in the rear of my setup. 

Yes, your 14s have crossovers inside, but I do not recall just where.  They might be inside a "can" like my Valencias - attached to the rear panel.  The one recommended improvement would be to have your crossovers rebuilt.  No doubt the original electrolytics are shot by now.  My Valencias need rebuilt crossovers, but I am going to wait until later this year or beginning of next year before I have DeanG take a stab at refreshing (or replacing) mine.  Rebuilt crossovers would help your clarity/detail and extend your high end.   In other words, they probably sound good but could sound better. 

Also, you might want to dampen your horn with rope caulk.

Carl.

Carl,

Thanks for the info.  My model 14's were given to me by my neighbor.  They were sitting in his garage taking up room, so he said do you want them and I said hell ya.  If you could enlighten me though about this rope caulk and also about rebuilding the crossovers.  It would not be cost effective for me to ship out the speakers to have the crossovers rebuilt, but I am handy with a soldering iron and reading schematics (6 years as a tweak in the navy).  Who can I order the parts from and what parts would be of high quality.  Thanks a bunch.

Sam

Here's a thread where DeanG originally asked to see schematics of an Altec crossover:  http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/551531/ShowPost.aspx  However, it looks like Dennis' post that contained the crossover scheme was deleted - probably due to proprietary concerns. 

Since it sounds like you can easily handle DIY crossover work yourself, if I were you, I would cruise and/or search one of the Altec forums mentioned in that thread to determine what the best combination of parts might be for a rebuild.   My recollection of doing some informal searching was that there was a debate over whether or not to replace the original electrolytics with the same of very high quality or to use modern polypro caps instead.  Logic tells me that replacing electros wtih polypros would change the speakers' signature, and I still am not convinced on which way to go for my Altecs.  Parts Express is usually a decent place to order parts from.  In any event, if you were to have someone rebuild your crossovers, you would not ship the speakers themselves, but remove the crossovers and ship them to one of the experts. 

Rope caulking is the rope caulking insulation that you can find at your local ACE hardware.  Metal horns, and especially Altecs are prone to ringing at higher volumes.  I do not recall which horns you have in your 14s or how you would access the front of your horns.  (removable grills, etc.).  I seem to recall that on Altecs, the outer edges of the lips (outer flare of the horn) ring, and you could apply rope caulking there.  Additionally, it might be beneficial to apply rope caulking to the horn as it first emerges from the narrow horn throat.  These are from my recollection though.  Caulking is one of the "to do" things on my list for my Altecs.  I have my Belles caulked (with Dynamat) and just have not gotten around yet to do the Altecs.   Again, searching the Lansing forum might provide some beneficial answers.  Also, try a search in this forum in the updates and mod section because I recall that Altec horn damping was discussed.

Carl.